> Well, Doug, as a classical musician I can only think of popular music as, by
> definition, "folkish." That is to say, a natural expression and
> manifestation of the innate and uncultivated musicality of human beings,
> only minimally concerned with aesthetic or spiritual matters.
>
> The reason that all the superficial trappings of power, such as loudness,
> monumentality, etc., are associated with fascism is precisely because they
> are used by fascism as basic tools of control, indoctrination,
> disempowerment, repression. I didn't see the post of the other day in which
> you spoke about "sublimity", and so I don't know what you were referring to
> specifically. It is certainly true that both loudness and the monumental can
> otherwise contribute to an expression of the sublime. But, as employed by
> the fascist, they have nothing to do with the sublime. They have instead to
> do with loudness and the monumental, which pose as excuses for themselves -
> an absurdity, of course, but one which is essential to the fascist cause
> that acknowledges only that might makes right.
>
> Now, you asked what is specifically fascist about these elements. I once
> participated in a discussion of what is fascism with a "Marxist." That
> discussion lasted for several years - easy enough considering that it was my
> father. I was defending Bertram Gross' viewpoint on fascism in America,
> against the more orthodox view that would like to reserve the term for
> Hitler and Franco, and a few select others. One of the most important things
> I learned from that discussion was that two intelligent people don't
> necessarily agree about what fascism may and may not be.
>
> Does the term have an objective meaning? Up to a point, I wouldn't deny that
> it has. Yet, it's important, I think, not to put TOO fine a point on it.
> What is the value of owning a word, as if that were possible? I called these
> musical elements fascist because fascism is associated with them as a
> carpenter is associated with a hammer. No black and white distinction was
> intended here. Should I be boring and point out that communism also was fond
> of the loud and the monumental? I needn't be so restrictive. Regarding that
> other element - exploitation of the "folkish" - even socialism in America
> induced a kind of glorification of folk art. Think only of Copland's
> Appalachian Spring. "'Tis a blessing to be simple. . ."
>
> On the other hand, one has to know when a mere toying with folkishness turns
> deadly, as in Orf's Carmina Burana. The Copland is not fascist. The Orf is.
> How can such a distinction be made? I could retreat to a position of
> expertise, and say that as a musician it has been my life long fate (and
> duty) to listen for the spiritual content in musical sound. After a time,
> certain things become rather clear and unmistakable. But I would rather put
> the matter more on the level of common sense. Add up enough of the
> ingredients of fascism, and one may actually arrive at fascism. This has
> practical implications in the political sphere. Who knows but that even a
> communist clique can make the transition in this way: we will have to
> conclude as much if China, for example, were to expand the private sector to
> such a degree that the ruling party elite begin to represent only a class of
> owners, and do so with the kind of "iron boot" that we associate with
> fascism? (Pace, Henry: I realize that I have no informed judgment on the
> actual course of change in China, which is why your posts have been so
> interesting and enlightening to me. I use the example of China only in an
> abstract way, in order to make a point.)
>
> Alec, you asked: "But by your criteria, why isn't John Adams' music fascist,
> because it's
> not loud enough? What about serialism: couldn't one argue it's a structural
> "iron boot"?"
>
> I don't know enough of Adams' music. Do you think it is fascist? The little
> bit I've heard of "Nixon in China" certainly seems to invite the label, but
> I find it especially easy to say that since I found the music to be
> intensely annoying and bereft of grace and beauty. In a curious way, all
> minimalism in art may be as fascist as the monumentalism I was referring to
> in my post. We would then be talking about the place of conjunction of yin
> and yang: the place of transformation into opposites. I've only really
> listened to Adams' Violin Concerto, which I don't think is minimalist, nor
> fascist. But, I am probably wrong. For there is no doubt that it is through
> and through American. Here again, I am probably confused by matters of
> personal taste. I quite liked the Violin Concerto, and so wouldn't like to
> think of it as fascist. What would that say about me? I have to be
> "brutally" honest when it comes to recognizing fascism in all its secret
> little hiding places.
>
> As for your question on serial music, Alec, I'm not sure if you are implying
> your own answer. For my part, the answer is an emphatic negative. No, serial
> music (12-tone music) is not in any way an expression of the fascist craving
> for "order" - especially, arbitrarily imposed order as the product of the
> individual will and its need to dominate. There is nothing in the least bit
> arbitrary about serial music.
>
> As it happens, I am a composer of serial music, and so I carry a heavy brief
> for its place in our tradition. Serial music is a natural unfolding of that
> tradition, and as such a reflection of the evolution of the human spirit. As
> our consciousness expands, we perceive ever more dimensions in this
> universe. The composer is no less a researcher into these many dimensions,
> than the physicist who opens our eyes to the multiple realms of time/space
> and a hundred other invisible dimensions besides.
>
> The many harmonic dimensions of polyphonic music have been only gradually
> and painstakingly perceived by successive generations of composers. Serial
> music is nothing new in this respect. For this reason, it should come as no
> surprise that serial music can express the permanent transcendence of the
> human being - or, just as easily, the subjugation of all that is in us
> yearning to breathe free. For the former, we have Schoenberg, for the
> latter, say, Stockhausen. In any case, serialism is a technical term. It
> pertains to matters of technique. Technique can be put to any purpose. Of
> course, fascism, per se, will never use serialism on purpose. Hardly anybody
> can understand it. It would be very counterproductive. But, far be it from
> me to give musical advice to the fascists.
>
> Daniel