> Your analysis below concludes logically that Black self-determination is
> an incoherent concept in the U.S. because your statement portrays the
> overall U.S. working class movement and struggles on specific reforms as
> having an underlying "coherent", CLASS struggle, anti-capitalist SYSTEM
> consciousness. But the various struggles do not have that coherence and
If something is incoherent, it is so without respect to whatever else is or is not going on. It cannot be denied that the class movement, so to speak, has a very long way to go.
> ideological glue. If there was such a coherent overall class conscious
> movement, it might make sense for Black people and other oppressed
> groups to forego significant self-determination. But since it is not and
> has not been effectively radical for many decades, Black people have to
> develop forms of self-struggle of all types to survive , thrive and
> continue in their long quest for "freedom". This freedom may only be a
> radical reform that is vulnerable to rollback ,as with the Civil War
> Amendments and the civil rights statutes, but it is in part achieved
> based on an affirmative concept of an independent national-like and
> cultural group, a "social-self", an affirmative group identity with
> significant "COHERENCE".
Going it alone is a natural, unavoidable resort for workers of all types, in all situations, in the absence of a real class movement.
The question is the feasibility of assorted ways of going it alone.
Obviously African-Americans have much in common in cultural, social, and economic terms, a "social self" to be sure. But the question is what SOLUTIONS with some political possibility are available. What does self-determination mean in practice or in terms of program?
Today I heard a talk from an expert on black public opinion (polling) report some of the key issues that distinguished them from others: he mentioned school vouchers and culturally conservative positions (for instance, support for capital punishment).
Louis mentioned some things that were or remain class issues. Now if it happens, as seems likely, that blacks are more disposed to favor and agitate for class demands (e.g., higher minimum wage), and if they organize separately to this end, nobody could be happier than myself. But I would distinguish this from self-determination. It's really blacks as the militant, leading edge of what we can hope will be a more diverse political movement. So I think we're mixing up the likely vanguard role of black workers with parochial demands.
The negative side of nationalism, or the 'bad' sort of self-determination, is the embrace of demands thast are positively reactionary and/or which have zero potential for instigating any broader, positive mobilization.
Now, nobody could blame blacks or any group of workers from considering pragmatic expedients which could improve their lot. Moral condemnation is not in question here. To me a progressive standpoint, however, means evaluating all such projects for their progressive or negative potential.
Cheers,
Max