-----Original Message-----
From: Jim heartfield <jim at heartfield.demon.co.uk>
>The logic of national self-determination was well examined by liberal
>and socialist thinkers. Any nation has a right to self-determination.
>But it does not follow that any group in society that fancies can
>declare itself a nation. Nationhood is an objective condition, not
wish-
>fulfilment. ... Yorkshire is
>not objectively a nation, ie it has no coherent economy, culture or
>language.
jim,
i'm a little surprised. most countries in the world today have no coherent economy, cutlure or language, including that of britain, yugoslavia, australia and the US. (i am trying to think of any that might be an exception to this.) they might have official languages, but no country has one language, not to mention the sharing of certain colonial languages as official languages of different countries. the formation of a national economy is a very recent thing indeed for the world. australia for one did not have a national economy until after 1900, ie., after the adoption of a national currency, controls on immigration, imports, exports, central banking and the like. the borders of this national economy are increasingly porous, though not perhaps with respect to immigration where it is increasingly fortress. as for culture, i am surprised that anyone who acknowledges the class divisions of a society would simultaneously assert a national cultural 'way of life' which is 'coherent'. i can easily say that australian culture is far from being coherent: the north-western half of it looks and feels like 'a different country' to me, as do many suburbs in melbourne where i live, not to mention that cultural life in this city is a rubbing together, and not without friction, of US, Koorie, Brit, SE Asian, Southern European and many other cultural lives besides, all of which are very different wth respect to class.
the formation of nations is certainly a material thing, but that does not mean that nations were not made, including being made ideologically, and the most potent ideological premise of which is that the nation is coherent. it's this myth which any serious attachment to is what compels the search for national coherence, integrity, purity. etc. -- in short, to make of this mythical nationhood a factual boundary.
Angela --- rcollins at netlink.com.au