Charles' support for THESE laws

rc-am rcollins at
Sat Apr 24 07:47:56 PDT 1999

Chaz wrote:

>CB: We don't have the powers to hand over.
>Also,To win the working class to support this proposal will empower the
working >class more, as it will have to become more conscious of the divisiveness of racism to >get behind it.

we always have power to hand over. this would be the definition of capital (a labour) power 'handed' over, would it not?

and, a Gramscian like yourself would see the relation between the state and the masses as not only one of coercion but of the organisation of consent. where I differ with you is that I see the generation of support for hate speech laws within the working class as the organisation of consent and not opposition, including opposition to racism. much more important I think to organise support within the working class for an internationalism capable of responding to the internationalism/national controls of capital.

>CB: How do you expect to enforce laws against tax evasion or poor working
conditions if you do not ultimately rely on police powers. What if a capitalist evades taxes ? How do you force them to pay ?

one way would be by denying what they want most: labour and money (financial disincentives). these are both reformist proposals.

>If and when the working class has enough power (and consciousness) to get
this passed, they will have to have enough power to get its definitions passed.

this is odd. Germany has had racial vilification laws and it has done nada to stem the racism there, the definition of what constituted racism was not very broad or broad enough to include anything more than symbols; and the introduction of these laws was enacted at the same time as the increasing criminalisation of the left.

>CB: Do you anticipate socialism as having no law ? We will still have law
and lawyers with socialism. Plus, the movement needs People's lawyering to clarify the legal goals of the revolution, how socialism will change bourgeois law.

I sincerely hope the revolution will not have legal advisors. btw, have you read Pashukanis? if so, what did you think?

Angela --- rcollins at

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