their language was also permeated with social darwinism (Beatrice Webb knew Herbert Spencer personally and admired him)...they and their acolytes favored elite professional control and 'benevolent' paternal state (gov't *for* the people)...they contrasted 'true' socialists who were bureaucratic experts trained in social sciences to working class and trade unionists who were ignorant and stupid (which probably explains why they had limited interest in extending suffrage or women's rights)... Michael Hoover