Effective Planning vs. 'Complete Knowledge' (was Re: what does chaz want?)

Yoshie Furuhashi furuhashi.1 at osu.edu
Mon Aug 23 23:17:10 PDT 1999

Angela wrote:
>yoshie wrote:
>> You are making two mistakes. (1) You assume that planning must equal
>infallibility (or god-like complete knowledge, which is of course
>neither possible nor desirable), or that a desire for planning must
>equal a desire for infallibility.<
>the latter, but a desire for infallibility is not how i would
>characterise it. rather, a beleif that there is a body (either self or
>state or party) which can be vested or attributed with a complete

You've failed to address the key sentence in my post.
>There is no reason why a reasonably (i.e.
>humanly) effective planning depends upon "complete knowledge," unless one
>thinks that the only planning worth doing is an infallible (i.e.
>impossible) planning.

Do you disagree with this? If so, please explain why you think without what you call "complete knowledge," a reasonably (i.e. humanly) effective planning (for the regular satisfaction of most human wants) is impossible. Unless you can prove that planning can only be done with "complete knowledge," the rest of your post doesn't make sense.


>> >why does shitting always seem to be the final resort of a bedrock
>> >version of needs?
>> Because the needs to eat, drink, sleep, and excrete are most obviously
>> common to all human beings (and predictably so, I may add), unless you
>> imagine human freedom and desire to be metaphysical entities that can
>> be disembodied from biological givens.
>ahh, yoshie. you're fudging. we both know you didn't say shitting; you
>said wiping your bum with toilet paper. hardly a biological given there
>is it? my point was that shitting gets a mention every time in
>supposedly witty attempts to cast around for some supposedly immediate
>natural need, despite the fact that how you shit, and in particular how
>we use toilet paper, is hardly the bedrock it's claimed to be.

Well, once you shit, there does arise a need to wipe your ass, unless you like keeping shit on your ass. In other words, biological givens *constrain* your subsequent actions (e.g. to clean or not to clean your beshitted ass). And there are only so many different ways to clean your ass (to wash with water & dry or to wipe with toilet paper being probably main desired options now), so many different ways to use toilet paper. (I can only think of one unusual case: doms who own shit-loving slaves, who must be a teensy-weensy minority even among S/M enthusiasts.) Whichever course of action you prefer afterward, biology (shitting) gives rise to a need (cleaning), no? To take up another orifice, you may satisfy your hunger with all manners of food, but satisfy your hunger you must eventually, or you perish. That (the need to eat), my friend, is another bedrock need.

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