> OK. I already understand that Buffy is ambivalent about
> her calling, and Faith's Nietzchean schtick is a pose; the
> Watcher's council with all their bureaucratic absolutism is
> full of shit and Buffy's grass-roots collectivism is where
> it's at. also that it's never moralistic in an after-school
> special way, indeed, that sort of thing is consistently and
> successfully satirized on "Buffy". it is my favorite TV show
> for all these and many more reasons.
And we (me and at least one other person somewhere on this list) already understand that you understand, Liza. You wrote in shorthand highlighting one aspect, and I, writing onlist devoted too much attention to fleshing out the contradictions that others might not be aware of. I didn't mean to suggest you weren't aware of such things, and I'm a bit chagrined to realize that I did indeed leave that impression. Sorry.
> I was merely raising a concern about this particular plot
> twist. We'll SEE what happens, but it looks to me...and I
> know you people (well, Paul and James, who think being a fan
> means never having to say ideology)
Hey, when did I say that? Ideology. Ideology. Ideology.
Now, WHY am I saying "ideology"?
> will hate this ... as if buffy is being punished for being
> tempted by faith, and faith for being faith E.G. being the
> only female character on the show who A)EATS b)openly digs
> her own aggression c)digs other grrrls d) really digs sex in
> general...
Well, I understand your fear, but I don't really share it. (1) My take on Faith is somewhat different, and due in part to subjective factors [I got REALLY po'd when she ate off Buffy's plate!] -- neither you nor I are right. (2) My feeling about the moral complexity of the show seems to run a bit deeper than yours. (3) I think it's already being shown that Buffy NEEDS to be "tempted by Faith" precisely because she's in denial every bit as much as Faith.
> (Paul: I KNOW she hides behind all this appetite to avoid
> dealing with other stuff but it's still genuine!)
Oh, absolutely! I was trying to say that in my post. Both Faith & Buffy hide behind what they really are. And what they hide from is aspects of themselves in each other.
> The narrative is veering in this retributive direction and all I
> was saying is I really don't want it to turn out that way. without
> getting down into some stupid overly-literal shit about what people
> actually get from TV shows, i think it would be totally unworthy
> of the show.
Yes, it would be totally unworthy, and it's not gonna happen.
There might be a retributive thread in there to give it dramatic juice, but the Faith/Buffy dynamic of drawing out each others suppressed similarities promises that if that does happen it will be a THREAD -- content, not context-- and thus something to be opposed in various ways.
Have a little more faith in "Buffy," Liza. You'll see. If I'm wrong, I'll buy you lunch. I promise.
-- Paul Rosenberg Reason and Democracy rad at gte.net
"Let's put the information BACK into the information age!"