> Re below:
>
> Me: "As I said, I realize I can sound like a sap taking a position like
> that, but I've always thought the left's most powerful weapon is simply
> sweet reason."
>
> Doug: "No I'm afraid it isn't. Reason has all too little to do with
> politics.
> People believe the most amazing crap and no amount of rational argument
> can
> dislodge it."
>
> Which leaves what alternative, "all power grows out of the barrel of a
> gun"? What other route to social transformation is there other than (1)
> arguing or (2) shooting? I think the left has the better arguments, and
> the right will always have more bullets.
You're right Carl. We DO have the better arguments. But until we get wise to the 'irrational' factors, that will not do us much good, as Doug points out.
However, Bill's point is also relevent. It's not nearly so bleak as taking Doug straight might lead one to belive:
> Not quite so clear-cut, at least according to Noam Chomsky and to
> Raphael Ezekiel. Chomsky contends that these beliefs are often
> extremely shallow and often evaporate when met with reasonable ones
> --- I imagine the social and intellectual isolation in America from
> these issues is what makes up a great deal of the persistence of crazy
> ideas. Raphael Ezekiel confirmed this when he (a Jew) visited with
> Nazi and KKK members (written up in his book *The Racist Mind*) --- he
> said that once away from the group, many of the members would start to
> break down and treat him like a human being, among other signs of
> wavering commitment to their racist ideas.
Interestingly enough this was touched upon in this week's "Law & Order", where a neo-Nazi leader was tried for murder, and his "free speech" defense was challenged on the basis that he wasn't involved in "free" speech, but in creating a closed environment of coercive speech, to people who had been pre-selected for their mental instability, tendency toward violence, etc.
Naturally, the corporate media does this far more effectively on a mass scale than any 2-bit agitator, so we've got our work cut out for us, fur sure. But -- back to basics -- Carl is right. We DO have the better arguments. And, in the end, reality is quite left-wing. We ought to have more faith in our strengths, which are those that endure.
-- Paul Rosenberg Reason and Democracy rad at gte.net
"Let's put the information BACK into the information age!"