At 16:14 01/06/99 -0400, you wrote:
<large snip>
>But on the question of Mao's alleged murder of 30 million of his fellow
>citizens, the problem is a matter of logic rather than the mere absence
>of evidence.
>
>Henry C.K. Liu
>
>
It is problematic copying material from discussion on one list to another, and I cannot remember whether Brad de Long is on this list, and he may not consider it appropriate to pursue the question here, which certainly looks ahistorical to me.
I recollect a book was published in about '97 presenting the case apparently pretty authoritatively, and I spent 10 minutes fingering it before deciding not to buy. It seemed to me inevitable that these ideas would circulate into academia and be regarded as received wisdom until they could be refuted.
I have not read the extracts that Henry has posted in detail but I do agree it is a question of logic and approach as well as of clarifying facts.
There have been famines in Cuba and in North Korea. Famines are actually a normal phenomenon of history in many human societies, depending also on climate. They may be seen as the fault of the emperor or whatever power there is, and perhaps even a judgement by God. There is a human problem of managing surplus for years when it may be needed in unexpectedly large quantities.
It is also normal part of bourgeois politics to blame disasters on enemies and expect them to have foresight.
But human beings are really conscious of everything that with hindsight they may come to hold in clear consciousness.
There is a lot of serious argument about the leftism and idealism of the great leap forward and about Mao's mishandling of internal party debate. A CEO would have been sacked, but to use shorthand implying he was a mass murderer is logically a category error but also of course has a much wider political significance.
People may not want to pursue this debate here, but Doug's broad moderation policy is right in permitting it to be mentioned. It is better if ideas such as this circulate as received wisdom they are permitted on lists such as this where in due course they can be tested.
Chris Burford
London