"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote:
> Henry,
> I realize that the Chinese media is loudly
> trumpeting the rejection of Clinton's apology by
> the Chinese government and is claiming that it
> was not a mistake. But that is no reason for you
> to repeat such silly stuff. This was obviously an
> incredibly stupid thing to do, considerably stupider
> even than starting the bloody war in the first place.
> This morning's Washington Post presents the
> issue as follows. Supposedly the Chinese embassy
> was located in a different part of Belgrade until just
> a few years ago. It physically resembles the building
> that was the supposed target. It is on the same street
> and only about a block away. It has a low-lying building
> behind it that resembles a warehouse that was thought
> to be a storage area as well.
> None of this justifies this unjustified bombing, none
> of which is justified in my mind anyway. But it is also
> pretty clear that this was a blunder. Despite the word
> "Intelligence" in its title, there is no guarantee that the
> CIA is all that intelligent or competent or able to avoid
> errors.
> BTW, the map actually came from the National Imaging
> and Mapping Agency, NIMA, although it was drawn from
> a map originally provided by the CIA and not updated.
> Also, further evidence of the total incompetence here
> is that US diplomats had actually visited this embassy,
> attending receptions there. But, there is no reason to
> believe that bombing targets are passed by diplomats
> before being acted on. There is a lot of bungling and
> incompetence out there and it should not be dismissed.
> Barkley Rosser
> PS: I am personally affected by this latest development
> as a professor from Beijing Normal University is supposed
> to be visiting in my department next year to work with me.
> His application for a US visa is currently sitting in the US
> embassy in Beijing where I don't think that it is getting acted
> on very quickly......
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henry C.K. Liu <hliu at mindspring.com>
> To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com <lbo-talk at lists.panix.com>
> Date: Sunday, May 09, 1999 6:43 PM
> Subject: Re: NATO bombs Chinese embassy
>
> >
> >As for American explanation on the embassy attack as a identification
> error,
> >it is totally without credibility.
> >US/NATO has been bragging about the bombing effectiveness with
> statistically
> >low "collateral" damage. They have been bragging about the reliability of
> >their target lists.
> >In addition to claims of surgical precision, US/NATO has also declared the
> >firm policy of wanting to avoid the spread of the "war".
> >The embassy of a major power is an important facility so that it is
> >unbelievable that US/NATO would not have an off limits target map listing
> >all the embassies before the start of the bombing campaign. It would be
> >standard operating procedure.
> >It appears more likely that anti-China forces in the US government and
> >military, especially in the CIA, purposely mislead NATO military command
> >into attacking the Chinese embassy to create an incident that would put the
> >Chinese government (as well as NATO and the Clinton Administration) in
> >positions of confrontation and to
> >create problem in domestic politics in both countries.
> >These anti-China forces want to stop the emerging peace offensives and hope
> >for a Chinese veto at the UN Security Council.
> >This is part of the anti-China pattern of alleged Chinese spying, alleged
> >Chinese interference in American elections, etc., etc., all done against
> the
> >wish of the Clinton Administration but nevertheless became major issues in
> >US-China relations that put the Clinton Administration on the defensive.
> >The US government is responsible for its failure to manage US internecine
> >domestic politics and for its incompetence in administering its bureaucracy
> >and military and for allowing the anti-China elements within it to create
> >an incident that leads to hostile confrontation between the two countries.
> >This sort of incidents happened all through America history, from the
> >assassination of Kennedy to Watergate, to the Tonga Gulf Resolution, to all
> >the anti-Clinton scandals.
> >
> >Doug posted a London press report earlier:
> >
> >"some specialists believe that the strike on the Chinese embassy suddenly
> >exposed the existence of "a special direction" in the
> >war against Yugoslavia, which is conducted only by the United States and
> has
> >aims, different from those proclaimed by the NATO command.
> >
> >The fact that the bombing of the building was conducted by a special
> >force of the U.S. strategic aviation, which is not subordinated to the
> >NATO command and which flew from the American territory, confirms this
> >supposition.
> >
> >Earlier, the Daily Telegraph newspaper reported, referring to military
> >sources, that the U.S. conducts, in actual fact, two wars against
> >Yugoslavia: The U.S. has another "closed" list of targets, along with
> >the one submitted to NATO. Other NATO members, apart from Britain, are not
> >notified of these targets."
> >
> >Henry C.K. Liu
> >
> >"W. Kiernan" wrote:
> >
> >> Hello lbo-talk!
> >>
> >> It's impossible for me to believe that targeting a bombing strike
> >> against the Chinese embassy in Belgrade was an accident or a
> >> coincidence; there's just no way. My company does GPS (Global
> >> Positioning System) surveying and aerial mapping, so I know it would be
> >> trivially easy for our government to have established geodetic
> >> coordinates for map control points in Belgrade. It would be quite a bit
> >> harder to do so in, say Pyongyang, but not anywhere that a.) we have an
> >> embassy of our own, and b.) our agents can drive, unmolested, around the
> >> city in cars. Even off-the-shelf commercial GPS receivers would do the
> >> job.
> >>
> >> Using real-time kinematic GPS surveying, we achieve sub-decimeter
> >> accuracy for our hydrographic work in real-time - we steer the boat down
> >> the planned profile lines according to the satellite signal. And the
> >> signal you receive with a commercial GPS receiver is dithered with
> >> digital noise, but the military has special decoders which cancel the
> >> noise, so their GPS locations are even quicker and more accurate than
> >> the GPS surveys my company performs.
> >>
> >> As far as identifying the buildings on an aerial photo or a street map,
> >> that should have been even easier, you don't need anything but a car, a
> >> map and a pencil. Hell, you can do it on foot; I have, lots of times.
> >>
> >> Allegedly this bombing raid was conducted with one of our gold-plated
> >> B-2 bombers, which means that this one sortie probably cost over a
> >> million dollars. Am I supposed to believe that the U.S. Air Force
> >> conducted a million-dollar raid involving a two-billion-dollar bomber
> >> and no one bothered to double check the target coordinates first?
> >>
> >> Maybe Clinton, Blair, Reich Marshall von Clark, etc., did not intend to
> >> bomb the Chinese embassy, but somebody in the data pipeline did, and the
> >> odds aren't bad that that someone was located in Langley, Virginia.
> >> This incident absolutely reeks of CIA dirty trickery.
> >>
> >> As I would not care to participate in a new World War any time soon, I
> >> certainly hope that the Russians will supply NATO's high command with
> >> geodetic coordinates for their embassy as soon as possible, and I also
> >> hope the NATO bombardiers will carefully compare them with their target
> >> lists. Who knows, maybe those excitement-loving boys at Langley have
> >> listed the Russian embassy's coordinates as the location of the Belgrade
> >> Ammunition Works or something like that.
> >>
> >> Yours WDK - WKiernan at concentric.net
> >>
> >> Doug Henwood quoted the Times (London):
> >> >
> >> > WAR IN EUROPE
> >> > Poor intelligence caused embassy attack
> >> > CIA blamed for bomb blunder
> >> >
> >> > YESTERDAY Nato admitted it had bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade
> >> > after mistaking it for a Yugoslav government office. At least three
> >> > people were killed in the attack, which threw diplomatic efforts to
> >> > end the war into turmoil.
> >>
> >> Peace threat narrowly averted!
> >>
> >> > Alliance officials said they had believed the building was
> >> > Yugoslavia's federal directorate of supply and procurement, which
> >> > organises weapons imports and exports. It was hit by three 1,000lb
> >> > precision-guided freefall weapons, thought to have been dropped by a
> >> > B2 stealth bomber.
> >> >
> >> > Last night Nato diplomats were looking to General Wesley Clark, the
> >> > supreme allied commander who now has sole authority for selecting
> >> > targets, to take responsibility. Allied intelligence agencies,
> >> > including the CIA, were also facing severe criticism. "It is
> >> > absolutely incredible not even to know where the embassy of such an
> >> > important world power is situated," one diplomat said.
> >> >
> >> > General Walter Jertz, Nato's military spokesman, denied that Nato
> >> > planners had used outdated maps and said they had no reason to know
> >> > the locations of all the embassies in Belgrade. "Particularly as we
> >> > were not going to attack the Chinese embassy, we were not trying to
> >> > find out where it was," he said.
> >>
> >> So it was a coincidence? Of all the accidental targets in the world,
> >> the bombs just happened to fall on the Chinese embassy? Jesus, what a
> >> load.
> >>
> >> > Javier Solana, Nato's secretary-general, announced a formal
> >> > investigation, promising that the results would be made public. The
> >> > apparently disastrous failure of Nato's intelligence prompted
> >> > speculation that false information had come from a hostile agent,
> >> > and compounded anger over the bombing.
> >>
> >> Absolutely pure unmitigated bullshit. Screw you, Solana, what kind of
> >> idiot do you take me for? You don't get geodetic coordinates from a guy
> >> in a trench coat in a Belgrade alley.
> >>
> >> > ...President Bill Clinton offered condolences to China for "a tragic
> >> > mistake". But Viktor Chernomyrdin, the Russian envoy trying to
> >> > broker a peace deal, described Nato's action as "barbarism".
> >> >
> >> > The embassy, purpose-built for the Chinese in 1993, was hit during
> >> > the heaviest bombardment of Belgrade in more than six weeks of
> >> > bombing. Witnesses said two missiles struck the roof and one
> >> > penetrated its side. Two journalists and a reporter's wife died.
> >> > A fourth victim was reported missing. Chinese diplomats, some with
> >> > bloodstained clothes, watched in tears as rescuers brought out 21
> >> > injured.
> >> >
> >> > Jamie Shea, Nato's spokesman, described the embassy bombing as "a
> >> > terrible accident", saying the alliance regretted the loss of life
> >> > and injuries but would not be deflected from its campaign to destroy
> >> > President Slobodan Milosevic's military machine...etc., etc.
> >>
> >> whereupon Michael Pollak wrote:
> >> >
> >> > When you juxtapose boneheadedness like this with the excellent
> >> > analyses coming out of Stratfor, it makes it seem like they fired
> >> > all the good spooks. Maybe we should follow the neo-liberal recipe,
> >> > abolish the agency, and contract the work out.
> >>
> >> Forget about having my company do it, pal! Fuck that. We're
> >> self-insured, and ordinary construction work is dangerous enough as it
> >> is. G. F. Young Inc. don't do no combat zones.
> >
> >