>>> "Jeffrey St. Clair" <sitka at home.com> 11/13/99 02:33PM >>>
Charles Brown wrote:
> >>> "Jeffrey St. Clair" <sitka at home.com> 11/11/99 03:42PM >>>
>
> How about Russ Bellant and the Center for Democratic Renewal ? They are quite sober, like me. What have the militas done good ? You avoid that. How come Michigan is so rightwing coincident with militia strength ? I have heard nothing from the militias denouncing Englerism in Michigan. Why not ?
>
> Sounds like you might be complacent.
I know a lot of sober hysterics, but, admittedly, that may be beside the point. I don't know Bellant's work very well. So I'll refrain from offering an judgment. James Ridgeway may be able to give you an evaluation.
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Charles: The above questions are somewhat rhetorical. Russ Bellant's work is good , and he contradicts you.
You seem to be still ignoring the Center for Democratic Renewal , which used to be called Klan Watch. Your evaluation of the militias in relation to fascistic racist groups in the U.S. cannot be very complete without considering the opinion of the CDR.
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Ridgeway and I did a series in the Voice a few years ago on these guys, right after the Oklahoma City bombing.
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Charles: Yes, don't you think you should get a little more "hysterical" about the connection between Timothy McVeigh and the militias ? Sort of a big fact that you don't seem to be adequately integrating into your analysis.
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We interviewed dozens of militia types, Western anarchists, Wise-Users, in Oregon, California, Nevada, Idaho, Washington. In their homes, in their bars, and, in one bizarre instance, in their casinos. Ridgeway went back to Washington to think about all this. I went back to Oregon City, where many who share similar views are my neighbors.
Are some of them racists? No doubt. Though most have probably never seen a black person, except on television.
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Charles: This is an example of what I mean by you're being complacent. I was trying to think of a word that has the opposite meaning of "hysteric". The idea is that you are underconcerned, too calm ,not upset enough about people who are never-seen-a-black-person type racists who are organizing military units, which have the obvious purpose and goal of using deadly force against somebody , sometime. You need to get a little more "hysterical" about that dimension of what you are examining.
Their claim that the UN is running the U.S. is also a sort of crypto racist mentality. It is also an indication that they are not in touch with political reality, something that is very bothersome for people who are so ready to start shooting. Obviously, they have no idea what the true role of the United States is in world affairs. And how amazing that the federal government they hate so much is seemingly in their favor relative to the vast majority population of the world which the UN represents. This whole line is a sort of updated John Birch Society position. I mean did you ask the militia members who you interviewed what they think about communism ? Sort of a basic question in trying to evaluate a group's politics. I find it hard to believe that they are not overwhelmingly anti-communist. That would be a pretty bad indicator as to their fundamental politics.
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Are some of them anti-semitic? Without question. Though again, few had ever met a Jew.
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Charles: Same comment as above. You are too calm about this. The special problem with militia types that makes them of more concern than your average American racist or anti-semite is that the militias are openly expressing their intent to use deadly force.
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Are they working class? Most of them: Miners, pulp mill workers, fender-fixers at auto-body repair shops, hard scrabble farmers, mechanics, Vietnam vets, loggers, oil field workers, heavy equipment operators. Men, mostly. But a fair about of women, too. In fact, my favorite interview was with the leaders of a group called Women in Timber. They were lead by a Hoopa Indian woman. Very smart and savvy politically. Not a software jockey in the bunch. These are people both the Reagan and Clinton "booms" overshot. Some of them are likeable enough; others, as Joseph Heller said, give me the willies. But in spending days talking with them, I certainly didn't recognize the portrait painted by people like Chpper Berlet and David Helvarg.
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Charles: The fact that they are working class should not make you feel any calmer about them. No doubt most of the troops in most of all fascist armies have been working class, just because the working class is the overwhelming majority of the population in capitalist countries. The Nazis would have gotten nowhere without a huge mass of alienated, confused workers , victimized by capitalist crises. The fact that some of them are even "ok" and wouldn't go along with any fascism is not a dimension that makes the movement immune as a proto-fascist formation.
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Has the Michigan Militia fought Englerism? I don't know. Ask them.
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Charles: This was a rhetorical question. The answer is no, they haven't. For people who are so outspoken about the federal government, they haven't uttered a peep against Engler. What's the problem ? State government is government too. The problem is they argree with a lot of Engler's program, which is rightwing. That is not something to be calm about , again, since the miliitia make a big point about being armed. Aggressively armed people who seem to be comfortable with an extreme rightwing, racist governor is not something to be calm about.
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I do know that the Montana Militia has fought Racicotism (which is a western species of the same--Raciocot being the most likely candidate for Sec. of the Interior in a GW Bush administration--talks like Bruce Babbitt, walks like James Watt.)
What good have they done? They've fought the encroaching powers of the police state;
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Charles: Did they fight Racicotism from the left or from the right ?
I don't see one way in which the militias have fought the encroaching powers of the police state in the ways that that encroachment seems dangerous to me. I'm concerned that they are the potential stormtroopers for a fully fascist police state, American style, like in the old days of the wild , wild West.
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they've printed their own money; they've formed collective quasi-communal groups to help each other out when they are laid off, when the bank forecloses on the farm, when they get thrown in jail, or when the FBI or the ATF shoots one their wives in the head;
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Charles: Sort of like pioneers and cowboys who conquered this land from the Indians. Or even ex-Confederate soldiers who founded the KKK. The latter had been screwed over by the American system royally in many ways similar , analogous and worse than what you describe above. The Confederacy itself was a "rebellion" against the Federal government. Sound familiar ? Opposition to the central, federal government as a sole and main defining political doctrine has a very bad record in American history. These types of working class/peasant Americans have a very spotty record when it comes down to mass murders of people of color vs overthrowing the capitalist or slave system.
I'm not exactly sure why you don't think that the militia type is not entirely familiar to anybody familiar with American history. It is not that they aren't vicitms of capitalism and the system. It is that the response of working class/peasant white Americans to their own victimization has not yet been to struggle effectively and fully against the heart of the system that fucks them over, but has been quite regularly to scapegoat some other oppressed groups vicitmized by the U.S. , capitalist system. These people show very little indication of understanding that would make them an exception to that general American historical pattern.
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they've opposed Nafta, MAI and WTO; they've attacked the drug war; they've supported initiatives in Arizona and Oregon and California to decriminalize drugs; they opposed asset seizures and the death penalty; they've raised the issue of the expanded domestic use of the military; and, contrary to assertions by some, they are at the grassroots level, at least, fierce critics of corporate power--they hate the big mining companies, the banks, big timber, big beef (IBP), the farm syndicates: ADM and Cargill and Continental Grain; and the pesticide companies, such as Monsanto and DuPont.
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Charles: I hate to tell you this, but the Nazis' full name was the National Socialist Workers' Party. Mussolini had been a leader of the Socialist Party of Italy. Mixing in some "socialist", "anti-capitalist", "peoples'" demogogy with their rhetoric has been integral to the main fascist movements in history. All of the above must be examined with a very jaundiced eye.
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And just what the fuck am I complacent about?
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Charles: In calling you complacent, I was trying to think of something that is the opposite of your crack about Berlet being "hysteric". You are too comfortable with all the characteristics of militias that fit classic fascist and racist groupings.
A genuine pro-working class activist would work triply hard to cleanse working class groupings of these most dangerous pollutants. You are way too indifferent as to how many of the characteristics of typical militia members would make the average worker of color quite nervous about where they are ultimately coming from. This indicates a significant lack of awareness on your part of the main main divisions of the working class.
There is no premature anti-fascism.
Charles Brown