debating libertarians

[kayak3]

James Farmelant wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:26:48 EDT Paten241 at aol.com writes:
> >In a message dated 10/5/99 11:06:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> >kayak3 at bouldernews.infi.net writes:
> >
> ><< as anyone on the list debated libertarians? >>
> >
> >  I have had it out with L's once in a formal debate and often on the
> >net.
> >The first problem I have is I consider Libertarianism not so much a
> >political
> >theory as a mental health problem. Having said that they are quite
> >vulnerable, in my experience, in asserting *a free markets* ability to
> >inform
> >social policy. The examples of failure are so ubiquitous you can tie
> >them in
> >knots for hours
> >  They also seem quite perplexed regarding concepts of (personal)
> >freedom
> >when asked to consider Necessity.
> >  It seems it might be timely, in light of recent news stories, to ask
> >the
> >L's about the Markets inability to provide healthcare. The market
> >can't
> >manage to provide either quality or access.
> 
> Their stock reply to this argument would be that the markets
> can't deliver because of all the government interference
> in them through such means as Medicare, Medicaid, government
> regulation of health care, tax incentives for HMOs etc.  A
> libertarian would argue that it is government intereference
> that has blocked the markets from doing thei job efficiently.
> I think that one could reply that perhaps the removal of
> all this government presence in health care might permit
> the markets to operate more efficiently but at the cost of
> depriving even more people of access to health care since
> it is after all more efficient for markets to deliver goods
> and services for those who got the bucks while withholding
> them from those without lucre.
> 
> Jim F.
> 

Having worked in the health care system, I'd add that government has
done more to stymie the growth in the cost of health care than the
insurance industry. The government instituted the GRE system that paid a
flat fee per diagnoses, giving providers an incentive to be efficient.
Everyone working in health care knows that private fee for servace
insurance would pay providers much more than medicare and medicaid. The
government has had to raise the amount they pay out to providers because
of the tendency of private insurers to pay out whatever the providers
asked for. 

Also, the healthcare system in the US is more free market oriented than
any other in the industrialized world, yet we pay more and insure fewer
people than any of the other systems which are universal and have more
governmental interference. In fact most of them are government run. AS a
result we have a lower life epectency, higher infant mortality than any
of these "socialist system" the libertarians are so afraid of. 
Just my thoughts on the subject.

Brad Hatch