>there might be some strong reasons why leftists in the US reject state
>planning, but there are i think some strong reasons why in the US state
>planning is regarded as _external_ to capitalism (which i think is actually
>what i said).
yes, you're right. i was typing hastily and didn't note that as i should have. moreoever, i was responding to simon's response to you which warped my thinking a bit. [hmmmm. i'm thinking of ken's post on lacan. which one am i?]
anyway, yes, while trying to destroy a palmetto bug this afternoon after i read your post i do believe that my first reaction was: if a leftist *does not* know the stroy of the rise of the welfare state in the US then we might as well shoot ourselves. in the US that is; you guyz can usher in the rev cause US leftists are clearly incapable of getting a klew if this is the case. i mean my god, i learned this in an introductory sociology class reading piven and cloward: legitimation crises [habermas], gramsci, althusser and all that [no i didn't learn the names and theories but that's what informed the analysis offered by the instrcutor! and i can't {don't want} to believe that my experiences are unique!]. and were i to strictly rely on my own experiences as an activist i can safely say that i do not look kindly on the state and can clearly see how the state and state planning is problematic. and i could surely see how it was in no way "outside" of capitalism.
oh well, this thread is very interesting. as well as the acadmic factory one. i'll be back in a few with some more thoughtful responses. i've been wrestling with a lot of this for a while.
kelley