In article <s7cd4f4e.065 at mail.ci.detroit.mi.us>, Charles Brown <CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us> writes
>Charles: Right after this section they say:
>
>" The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced
>and resolute section of the working class parties of every country, that section
>which pushes forward all others; on the other had, theoretically, they have over
>the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the
>line of march, the conditions, and the ultimate
>general results of the proletariat movement. "
Note that in the original publication for the German Communist League, it has entschiedenste = most resolute. This was changed in later translations to "most advanced and resolute." In any case, we on this list may be described as the most advanced or resolute section with a greater theoretical understanding. But this hardly justifies our self- appointment as leaders to others.
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Charles: "Most resolute" , "pushes forward all others" can very, very, very reasonably be interpreted as the modern term "leaders". "Pushes forward all others" becomes metaphorical, and of course if metaphorically you are pushing, you are behind , not ahead. But at this point the metaphors must be seen as metaphors. And what is the honest interpretation of the metaphor of "pushing forward" ? It is that of a leader , of course. It is someone who is more acutely aware of the goal, and more RESOLUTE in sticking to it than those she must push forward at certain points. This is common sense.
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>This is a direct statement of their conception of the Party which is similar to
>Lenin's, contra yours, on this thread. The party is "theoretically" or
>intellectually the leadership of the class as a whole.
Except that neither Marx nor Engels wrote about the Party leading the working class. This would have contradicted their often repeated claim that the working class must emancipate itself. Of course this does not rule out the need for some kind of party organisation, but it does specifically rule out a Leninist type of organisation because that sets up "sectarian principles of their own, by which to shape and mould the proletarian movement."
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Charles: Marx and Engels exact words do not directly imply your conclusion that their words specifically rule out a Leninist type of organization. There is an intervention of your interpretation that Lenin's party principles include or necessarily lead to an organization that sets up "sectarian principles of their own, etc. "
The Party is part of the working class. So a working class emancipating itself can do so with a leading section pushing forward theoretically, urging the whole class on by the reasoning of the Manifesto of the Party, and other theory to guide practice.
Charles Brown