On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Nurev Ind Research wrote:
>
> For the first time since the Vietnam war, I will vote in a major
> election. I will vote for a racist, sexist, Jew hating, capitalist
> bigot who is the only one that can stop the Global Capitalists.
>
> The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
>
> Holding my nose,
> Joshua2
>
> =====================================
>
> CNN CROSSFIRE - September 6, 1999
>
> What Party Deserves the Union Label?
>
> BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Tonight, looking for the union label -- on this Labor
> Day, candidates are appealing for the support of labor unions. Who
> deserves it more? Democrats or Republicans?
>
> ANNOUNCER: From Washington, CROSSFIRE. On the left, Bill Press; on
> the right, Mary Matalin. In the CROSSFIRE, Congressman Tom Davis of
> Virginia, chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee, and
> Richard Trumka, secretary treasurer of the AFL-CIO.
>
> PRESS: Good evening. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
>
> It's Labor Day, when anybody with any sense is at the beach, and everybody
> else is out campaigning, Democrat and Republican. GOP front-runner George
> W. Bush rode in Labor Day parade in South Carolina. Gary Bauer, Steve
> Forbes and Dan Quayle all worked the same labor crowd up in New Hampshire.
> And Vice President Al Gore was grand marshal for the big Labor Day parade
> in Des Moines, Iowa, all of which is a sure sign that labor's going to be
> a big player in the 2000 elections, and is, in fact, already gearing up.
>
> The AFL-CIO reportedly plans to spend up to $46 million in 2000,
> supporting candidates, mostly Democrats. In 1998, only 27 Republican
> members of Congress received labor support. Is that fair? A lot of union
> members vote Republican, but are union bosses willing to support more
> Republicans? Or are unions, as some charge, just political subdivisions of
> the Democratic National Committee? Weighty questions for tonight's guests
> as we examine labor and politics, 2000. Mary.
>
> MARY MATALIN, CO-HOST: Well, happy Labor Day.
>
> And we'd much rather be with you than at the beach, Mr. Trumka. Now, I am
> a member in good standing of the vast right-wing conspiracy. I am also...
>
>
> RICHARD TRUMKA, SECRETARY TREASURER, AFL-CIO: That's good. I'm
> glad to finally meet you, by the way.
>
> MATALIN: Well, and happy to be there, and also proud card- carrying
> member of the American Steelworkers, AFTRA, SAG, I belong to three
> different unions, and that is not that weird. Thirty-one percent of union
> members -- union households identify themselves as conservative. Somewhere
> between 40 percent and even higher vote for Republicans. Why, Mr. Trumka,
> then, in past elections, does 99 percent of union money go to support
> Democrats? TRUMKA: Well, first of all, only 20 percent of our members are
> really where you said they were. And we actually looked at that program,
> and at one point about two years ago, about 40 percent of our members
> actually voted where we thought they shouldn't be. I'm not going to name
> that political party.
>
> MATALIN: That's almost half of your party voting against...
>
> TRUMKA: But it drove our current program, because what we found out is
> they were voting for people who were not going to Congress and voting in
> their interests. So our new program is designed to issue- educate them,
> and give them a real informed choice so they can make a decision on
> Election Day on who goes to support him and who doesn't.
>
> MATALIN: Of all the issues that all American families are concerned about,
> particularly union households are interested in and do support tax cuts.
> Seventy percent of union members supported the across the board 10 percent
> tax cut, which is no more, yet you oppose it. They also obviously must
> support policies that promote job creation, not the kind of policies
> Democrat support. Those are the two biggest issues for union families.
>
> TRUMKA: Well, first of all, they don't support tax cuts when it's going to
> destroy Social Security, Medicare and other groups. And they tell us,
> whenever they talk to us, we wish that that Congress up there would spend
> a little less time bickering with each other and more time figure out ways
> to keep jobs here, to keep -- develop good trade policies that help us
> with manufacturing. They also don't think it's a very fair tax cut when 70
> percent of it goes to the top 10 percent. That's not a blue collar
> friendly tax plan. That's a country club tax plan.
>
> PRESS: Congressman Davis, welcome to the show, by the way.
>
> REP. THOMAS DAVIS (R-VA), CHAIRMAN, NATIONAL REPUBLICAN
> CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE: The tax plan is totally misrepresented.
> You have been reading that AFL-CIO material. That's not what's in the
> tax...
>
> TRUMKA: I helped develop that, Tom.
>
> DAVIS: Listen, we're ending the marriage penalty in this. We have some --
> some of your pension plans are better protected, and we don't touch the
> Social Security trust fund. It is protected in a lock-box.
>
> TRUMKA: Over 70 percent of the tax cut that you talked about goes to the
> top 10 percent.
>
> DAVIS: That's because they pay 70 percent of taxes, today.
>
> TRUMKA: That's not a worker friendly plan.
>
> DAVIS: But that's because they pay 70 percent of the taxes today. We're
> giving it back to the people.
>
> TRUMKA: They don't.
>
> PRESS: Let's start back -- let's start back at the top. I've got to say,
> I'm embarrassed I only belong to two labor unions, but I'm proud to belong
> to two, and I wish I belonged to three.
>
> TRUMKA: So am I, Bill. We'll change that after tonight.
>
> PRESS: But Congressman, look, there are all of these complaints, and you
> just heard from Mary, that labor's too partisan. You know, I know labor
> well. I've worked with them a long time. I find them very pragmatic. Their
> methodology is this: Here are our issues. You support us on our issues, we
> support you. You oppose us on our issues, we oppose you. What's wrong with
> that?
>
> DAVIS: Because some of their issues don't have anything to do with working
> people. Last time they -- let me just say -- they rated the impeachment of
> the president as a labor issue. They rated, also, in their voting, the
> census. Now tell me what the census has to do...
>
> (CROSSTALK)
>
> TRUMKA: You should be happy, because it helped your voting record.
>
> DAVIS: How this -- it's about the only one I was right on.
>
> TRUMKA: It is, though...
>
> DAVIS: But on the -- on the census issue, they side with the Democratic
> leadership on that. How is that working person's issues? They're a wholly
> owned subsidiary of the Democratic Party.
>
> (CROSSTALK)
>
> PRESS: Yes, and I'm sure you can. Don't you think, just as it's up to the
> business community to define what's good for business, it's up to the
> Sierra Club to define what's good for the environment, for example...
>
> DAVIS: It's up to the voluntary organizations.
>
> PRESS: ... it's up to labor, not to the Republican Congressional leader,
> to decide what's good for labor, correct?
>
> DAVIS: But you have to understand that labor, in many cases, people are
> forced to join unions as a condition of their job. If you're a member of
> the Sierra Club, it's a voluntary action. If you invest in corporation,
> it's a voluntary action. Labor's different, and they take those dollars,
> and then the leaders, at that point, have their own agenda. So it's not
> really grass roots.
>
> PRESS: That's not the issue. The issue is that labor says, here are our
> issues. Here are the ones we believe in. That's certainly their right.
>
> DAVIS: Certainly. PRESS: And so my question then, isn't it easy -- it
> seems to be the route is easy. If you want more Republicans to get more
> labor support in the year 2000, then the easy way to do it is to vote yes
> on those labor issues right? Bingo.
>
> DAVIS: When the labor issues are the census, when it's impeachment,
> when they rate issues that have
> nothing to do with working people, I think you have to...
>
> PRESS: If the census, then -- you keep coming back to that -- of the
> census is going to -- is going to amount to, as labor believes, in the
> under counting of millions and millions of minority members and working
> men and women in this country, why isn't that an important issue for
> working men and women?
>
> DAVIS: It doesn't do that. But -- it's a zero-sum gain. It doesn't under
> count labor members at all. What it does is it may under count people in
> Democratic reapportionment area, where you have Mayor Daley's brother
> putting up cyberpeople, which is what the current proposal is, it helps
> the Democrats. That's the problem.
>
> TRUMKA: Tom, we're not talking about it helping work -- I mean, union
> people or not. We care about working people, and whether working people
> get a true representation. And if it excludes people of color, if it
> excludes people that are here, then it's a bad issue for working Americans
>
>
> DAVIS: Well, nobody's for excluding anybody, but what they're trying to do
> here...
>
> TRUMKA: ... see the issue...
>
> DAVIS: But what you're trying...
>
> (AUDIO GAP)
>
> TRUMKA: ... outspends us 11 to one, Tom. That's a lot...
>
> DAVIS: Corporate America -- corporate America gives to both parties. Labor
> is 99 percent Democrat. That's -- I mean. that's a huge difference.
>
> PRESS: I want to come back -- I want to come back to those fact figures.
> Congressman, in 1994, when Republicans took control of the -- of the
> House, Grover Norquist, close adviser to then House Speaker Newt Gingrich,
> quoted as saying about labor -- quote -- "We're going to crush labor as a
> political entity and ultimately break the unions." And when Grover
> Norquist spoke, people knew he was speaking for Newt Gingrich. Is that
> still the Republican agenda?
>
> DAVIS: He wasn't speaking for me, and he wasn't speaking for the vast
> majority of Republicans or Democrats. I think unions have an appropriate
> place and presence in American politics.
>
> TRUMKA: It's important. DAVIS: We're not out to crush anybody. Richard and
> I have talked about that. So I don't think he was speaking for that. And
> if you look at the votes, they can't deliver on it.
>
> PRESS: But most recently, when this 46 million story came out of Miami, I
> think is where it came out of -- that story -- the wire story, was taped
> to the chairs of Republicans members on the House floor, with a little
> note signed by Congressman Tom Davis. And that note said: "In case you
> missed it, Republican members, 46 million reasons to stick together. Our
> opponents aren't sitting still, and we can't either."
>
> It sounds like you're declaring war on labor.
>
> DAVIS: Not at all, but we are letting them know that there are huge assets
> out there that are taken from working men and women's dues that are being
> used or for political purposes, most of which are going to be going to
> defeat these members. And they need to wake up to that fact. And that's
> good politics.
>
> TRUMKA: Tom, let me go back to the money for a second and Grover
> Norquist. Paycheck deception you guys put up in 32 states, California and
> 32 other states, as Grover Norquist said, to crush us politically and to
> break unions. Now that is a plank in the Republican Party. It's tough for
> us to go to our members and say we want to give money to the Republican
> Party when you have a national right to work law and you have paycheck
> deception as a plank in your national party.
>
> If you really want working people to gather around and support you -- and
> it's fortunate to this effect -- and I do want to add this part -- it's
> fortunate that many members in the Republican Party did not subscribe to
> that notion of breaking unions. I mean, I have a lot of friends in the
> Republican Party, and -- and they were sort of outraged by that. So it's
> tough for to us say we want to do this. And they say, but they're trying
> to crush us and silence our voice in the political arena.
>
> DAVIS: Yes, you have a lot of planks and party platforms both ways, and it
> has nothing to do with the congressional agendas. And I think that's very,
> very clear.
>
> TRUMKA: So are you saying party planks are useless?
>
> DAVIS: Party planks are talking things for delegates, but they have never
> been the launching -- linchpin for administrations.
>
> TRUMKA: The Contract...
>
> DAVIS: All I'm saying...
>
> TRUMKA: The Contract on America was. Newt's program was.
>
> DAVIS: Well, yes...
>
> MATALIN: The Contract on America. DAVIS: ... because members signed
> that. But that's not a party platform by unelected -- they're elected
> delegates but not by congressmen and senators.
>
> PRESS: At the risk of a compliment here, I've been impressed with your
> stewardship so far of the Republican Congressional Campaign Committee in
> that you have talked about reaching out to other constituents, not taking
> anybody for granted either way and trying to get more Republicans elected.
>
>
> DAVIS: Sure.
>
> PRESS: And I think that means a more open attitude toward labor, as I've
> heard you express. My question is do you really think you can turn the
> Republican Party around in that attitude toward labor?
>
> DAVIS: I think in our attitude toward a lot of different groups we're
> turning it around at this point. And we're finding that our message of
> individual empowerment versus government centralization, all the decisions
> coming out of Washington, resonates with labor members, it resonates with
> non-union members, it represents a philosophy I think that most Americans
> subscribe to, minorities, everyone else.
>
> TRUMKA: We would die and go to heaven when we can get a majority of
> Democrats and Republicans both supporting our issues.
>
> PRESS: Fat city, right?
>
> TRUMKA: Oh, man. It would be a labor day of all labor days.
>
> MATALIN: Well, boys, we're all just working stiffs here.
>
> And when we come back, we'll ask Richard Trumka if the presidential
> candidates are going to win his support in 2000?
>
> Stay with us on CROSSFIRE.
>
> (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
>
> MATALIN: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
>
> We're celebrating Labor Day, the kickoff to campaign 2000 with a labor and
> political leader, secretary treasurer of the AFL-CIO, Richard Trumka, and
> chairman of the Republican Congressional Committee, Congressman Tom Davis
> of Virginia -- Bill.
>
> PRESS: Congressman Davis, every election time, the labor lobbyists that I
> know are always looking for Republicans they can support because they
> don't want the media to slam them for being all hundred percent or 99
> percent Democratic. So here's a congressman from Virginia who comes along
> and says I'd like your support. My name is Congressman Tom Davis. We pull
> out this little paper, lifetime voting record for the AFL-CIO, Tom Davis,
> 19 percent. Why should labor support you? DAVIS: Well, actually, I raised
> a lot of labor money last time from individual unions, some of them
> unaffiliated with the AFL-CIO leadership, federal employee groups in
> particular. They've been very supportive as I've been supportive of them.
> And they have looked that, AFL-CIO leadership.
>
> But let's go to how those ratings are done. They're rating issues from
> impeachment to the census that have nothing to do with working people, I
> think, in the minds of most Americans. The census issue, just to get back
> to it a minute, was a party-line vote with a couple exceptions on each
> side. Party-line votes over how you -- it's a strictly political deal, and
> the AFL-CIO, instead of sitting it out sided with their parent company,
> the Democratic Campaign Committee.
>
> TRUMKA: Well, I think that shows exactly how pragmatic we are. He's right.
> We do have a couple of unions that support him.
>
> DAVIS: I have about 15.
>
> TRUMKA: Tom supports them so they support him. But we represent all of the
> unions, and when the vote was taken they said 19 percent doesn't quite
> make it.
>
> PRESS: But you mentioned -- you keep coming back to the census issue, and
> Rich mentioned the paycheck protection, or paycheck -- you called it the
> deception issue...
>
> TRUMKA: Deception, yes.
>
> PRESS: ... which I think that was the most important issue for labor
> unions last year because it really got to their ability to participate in
> the political process. As Rich mentioned, in 32 states, including
> California, that was put on there, a direct attack, an attempt to kill the
> unions. Wasn't that a mistake on the part of Republicans, looking at what
> happened in 1998?
>
> DAVIS: Well, you didn't get the result that happened. It certainly
> energized a part of the Democratic base in California.
>
> PRESS: Right.
>
> DAVIS: Although they put it on in a primary, which is a little bit
> different scenario. It got them an agenda up, and in retrospect you can
> look at it and say maybe it wasn't done correctly. I don't think it's
> gone, I think we're going to see more of it. And it doesn't stop unions
> from participating...
>
> TRUMKA: Yes it does.
>
> DAVIS: ... they can still give PAC contributions -- you can give PAC
> contributions from your members the way corporations do. But what happened
> in California...
>
> TRUMKA: You want to do -- you want to do -- you want to do real campaign
> reform? Do McCain-Feingold. That's real. We support that.
>
> DAVIS: Because it leaves labor alone and it hits the Republican voter
> base.
>
> TRUMKA: No, it doesn't. It gets us with all the corporations.
>
> DAVIS: It gets rid of all soft money...
>
> TRUMKA: It takes soft money off the table. Let's get rid of all soft
> money.
>
> DAVIS: But it doesn't -- your voter registration activities, the people
> you're putting on the street, it doesn't touch them. And that's where
> you're most effective.
>
> TRUMKA: Those are constitutional rights, Tom. You don't want us to stop
> trying register people. That's good for democracy.
>
> DAVIS: The bottom line is...
>
> TRUMKA: The more people that participate, the better democracy is.
>
> DAVIS: With union dues. With union dues, and that's what you're doing.
>
> TRUMKA: You give me some money and I'll represent...
>
> MATALIN: Which are compulsory. I -- you know...
>
> DAVIS: Which go basically just for Democrats when you look at it, or 99
> percent for Democrats. And that's the deal.
>
> TRUMKA: And here's, once again...
>
> DAVIS: And it doesn't -- it isn't even disclosed on any campaign form.
>
> TRUMKA: And here's again what we use the money for...
>
> DAVIS: No wonder you want campaign finance reform.
>
> TRUMKA: None of it...
>
> DAVIS: You're left alone.
>
> TRUMKA: None of it...
>
> DAVIS: Corporate America -- I'm sorry.
>
> TRUMKA: None of it goes to a party, and none of the money that we're going
> to spend goes to a candidate. The money that we're going to spend that you
> talked about will go to register voters, to educate them on the issues and
> mobilize them to get them out on Election Day, so that they participate in
> the democratic process.
>
> PRESS: God bless America.
>
> TRUMKA: What's wrong with that? PRESS: That's it.
>
> DAVIS: And the education -- the education is in sync on the -- from the
> census to impeachment on down to the Democratic agenda.
>
> TRUMKA: No, it isn't. You can work with us...
>
> MATALIN: All right -- all right, Mr. Trumka...
>
> TRUMKA: ... and we're glad you did it so we can get some good issues.
>
> MATALIN: ... to square this circle, then, if you're -- it is issues that
> drive you and mobilized your people, not party affiliation, why, if there
> is any labor litmus issues, it is NAFTA and GATT? The two presidential --
> Democratic presidential contenders both oppose -- I mean both support
> NAFTA and free trade, which you oppose. But how likely is it that you're
> going to endorse Pat Buchanan, who's the only candidate, I believe, in the
> race, who's with you on NAFTA? You're going to endorse Gore or Bradley.
>
> DAVIS: And fast-track...
>
> TRUMKA: First of all, let me tell you how we get to that endorsement,
> first. But you're right. Pat is a protectionist. What we would like to see
> is fair trade, not free trade.
>
> And remember, you're right. That was passed, and Bill Bradley and Al Gore
> are wrong on that issue and so are every one of the Republican candidates.
> And we're working hard to change that.
>
> Here's how we're going to endorse people this year. We have asked every
> one of our affiliates to go back to their membership, do polls, surveys,
> have meetings, and talk about who you want to endorse. And when that
> process comes in, their presidents will allow us to know whom they want to
> support.
>
> Probably it will be Al Gore or Bill Bradley. Now, of those two, I would
> say it would be Al Gore of the two. However, it is because the rank and
> file told us that.
>
> MATALIN: So you're saying that if a rank-and-file -- if a local union came
> back and said, we're for Pat Buchanan, you would let the local...
>
> TRUMKA: No. There -- it'll be a two-thirds vote.
>
> MATALIN: A majority thing.
>
> TRUMKA: No, a two-thirds vote. It'll be a supermajority. If two-thirds of
> the people said endorse Pat Buchanan, Pat's our candidate, and I'd be out
> there on the campaign trail endorsing him and supporting...
>
> MATALIN: Well, this -- this would be a millennial election.
>
> DAVIS: Our polling shows George W. beats Al Gore among union members
> nationwide right now head-to-head. So...
>
> TRUMKA: Just as soon as we let them now that George is for national right
> to work law, that George is for paycheck deception...
>
> DAVIS: ... which they don't care about.
>
> TRUMKA: They do care about. They know that it lowers wages, because in
> every right to work state you've got lower wages than in the non-right to
> work states. It -- just as soon as they find out that he tried to raid the
> teachers pension fund to give a tax cut to the break (ph), let them
> decide. Our job is to give them the facts and let them decide anyway they
> want to.
>
> DAVIS: The reality -- we're in the information economy, and the old
> paradigm where labor was representing the working man really has no --
> very little applicability in that. And I think we have to understand that
> the wage base now in a lot of right-to-work states, not because of unions
> or not unions, but...
>
> (CROSSTALK)
>
> TRUMKA: Well, if you're in a union...
>
> DAVIS: ... information economy.
>
> TRUMKA: ... you earn 32 percent more than nonunion worker. That's fact. If
> you're a woman and you're a union member, you earn 39 percent more. If
> you're an African-American, you get 45 percent more. And if you're a
> Latino, you get 54 percent more if you join the union.
>
> DAVIS: Not in Northern Virginia.
>
> MATALIN: And there are fewer union jobs because of this -- these costs
> that aren't commensurate with market forces.
>
> TRUMKA: Well, then why aren't there fewer CEO jobs, Mary? They're getting
> 10.6 million a year. They're off-the-charts everywhere. Why aren't there
> fewer of those?
>
> MATALIN: Because they're creating jobs. They are creating thousands of
> jobs.
>
> TRUMKA: Well, wait a second. You can't have it both ways. If they're
> creating jobs...
>
> PRESS: Almost out of time. You guys keep talking about 2000 as if it's
> just Bush and Gore, forgetting that there's this big elephant that may be
> jump in here -- in fact, former elephant named Pat Buchanan. Maybe former
> elephant named Pat Buchanan, may jump in here as a Reform Party candidate.
>
>
> If he does -- I mean, I saw all of those Teamster trucks out there in
> Ames, Iowa. I've seen Pat's labor support. I've heard his message.
>
> If he's on the ticket as a Reform Party candidate, doesn't he pull the
> blue- collar labor votes that George Bush might get from the Republican
> Party into the Reform Party?
>
> DAVIS: He pulls a lot of them, and he pulls a lot of Democratic votes too.
> He has a very interesting coalition. I think he helps us at the coalition
> level -- and I've said this before -- by being on the ballot, but he hurts
> our presidential candidate. And he pulls from a very eclectic group.
>
> PRESS: All right. We've got -- we'll see what's going to happen.
> Gentlemen, thanks for coming in on this holiday.
>
> DAVIS: Thank you.
>
> TRUMKA: Thank you.
>
> PRESS: Tom Davis, it's good to have you here, Congressman Davis.
>
> TRUMKA: Happy Labor Day.
>
> (CROSSTALK)
>
> PRESS: ... Trumka, great to see you again.
>
> Mary Matalin and I will wrap it up with closing comments.
>
> (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
>
> PRESS: You know, Mary, if you look at Peter King up in New York, you look
> at Al D'Amato, even Pete Wilson in California, as conservative as he is,
> got labor support. The support is out there, but unions practice the No. 1
> rule in politics. Right? You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. And
> that's the way it goes, and there's nothing wrong with it.
>
> MATALIN: You know what? I am pro-union. I am totally pro- union. But I'm
> also pro-progress. I am. You can't stop globalization anymore than you can
> stop computers or all the technology that they used to say was going to
> lose union jobs. Unions should be on the side of the workers for policies
> that create jobs...
>
> PRESS: They are. They are.
>
> MATALIN: Those are free-enterprise, market-force, market-driven jobs.
>
> PRESS: Well, global trade, you and I agree, and we both disagree with the
> unions. But when it comes to minimum wage, when it comes to livable wage,
> when it comes to striker replacement, to paycheck protection, the
> Republicans are against it.
>
> MATALIN: They'll lose jobs.
>
> PRESS: No, it's not. It's pro-labor. From the left, on labor, I'm Bill
> Press. Good-night for CROSSFIRE.
>
> MATALIN: And from the right, I'm Mary Matalin. Join us again tomorrow for
> another edition of CROSSFIRE.
>
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