Stupid question about Iraq

J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. rosserjb at jmu.edu
Thu Sep 23 07:13:54 PDT 1999


Jim,

No, that is further east. I do not know the full name of Saddam Hussein, but almost assuredly Saddam is his first name and Hussein is his family name, although Hussein is a very common first name, as with the late King Hussein.

A complete Arab name for a male will have the first name followed by his patronymic, followed by his father's patronymic (ibn the paternal grandfather's name) followed by the family name. Thus, for the late King Hussein of Jordan, who comes from the Hashemite clan descended from the Prophet Muhammed, and whose grandfather was King Abdullah, given the Transjordan by the Brits after the Saudis tossed them out of Mecca and was gunned down on the steps of the al Aqsa mosque in 1951 for possibly making peace with Israel, and whose father was the mentally incompetent Talal who he replaced rather quickly for that reason, his full name was Hussein ibn Talal ibn Abduallah al Hashim. He was the Malik (king) of Jordan.

At the same time many figures are referred to by their first names in the Arab world. Thus we hear of King Fahd in Saudi Arabia. His full name, btw, is Fahd ibn Abdulaziz ibn Abdulrahman al Sa'ud. The Arabic name for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is al Mamlaka as-Sa'udia al 'Arabia.

Much as in the Slavic world it is considered polite to address somebody by their first name and patronymic. Thus, the ambassador from Saudi Arabia to the US is commonly called Bandar bin (ibn) Sultan. His full name is Bandar ibn Sultan (the Saudi defense minister) ibn Abdulaziz (father of Fahd and known in the West erroneously as "Ibn Sa'ud") al Sa'ud.

OTOH, if you were to meet Saddam Hussein, you would probably address him as "Your Excellency, President Hussein." Hot stuff. Barkley Rosser -----Original Message----- From: Jim heartfield <jim at heartfield.demon.co.uk> To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com <lbo-talk at lists.panix.com> Date: Thursday, September 23, 1999 9:53 AM Subject: Re: Stupid question about Iraq


>
>>>I don't want to freight this question with any baggage about correct
>>>politics or anything like that; it's an honest query: why is it that
>>>the ruler of Iraq is referred to in common parlance, even in the press,
>>>as "Saddam" when it would be SOP to call a high-profile individual by
>>>their last name in most any other situation? I seem to recall that this
>>>moniker was bequeathed as a derogatory by Bush the Elder and minions in
>>>some weak attempt to slur him simultaneously in English and Arabic.
>>>Anyone that can shed a bit of light on this?
>>>
>>>Jason
>>>
>
>I think this is just a cultural difference. As far a I understand it,
>for Iraqis, the first name is the family name, and the last the given.
>To call Saddam Hussein, 'Hussein', would in that culture, be a familiar
>form of address, like calling George Bush, George.
>
>--
>Jim heartfield
>



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