Charles Brown wrote:
>
> > > . Labor should take a lesson from what happened with
> > > the overturning of socialism in the former Soviet Union.
> > > There, life for workers has seriously deteriorated. Pay and
> > > working conditions have gone from being some of the best in> the world to among the worst. Industrial accidents and
> > > pollution have risen sharply. This and worse is what would
> > > happen to workers in China if the socialist state were
> > > dismantled.
> > >
> >
> > This is happening right now in China, at a less advanced pace than in Russia, but certainly occurring apace. Denying it will get us none too far.
Henry Liu: This is simply a distortion. The difference between Russia and China is not a matter of degree. China, despite all the noise of reforming towards a socialist market economy, a bound by its constitution to adhere to socialism, through the dictatorship of the poletariat undr the leadership of the CPC. Stephen Phillon needs to fantasize that China has gone capitalist in order to justify his promotion of capitalist unions in China.
> > CB: I don't see a denial of it. I see a warning that anti-socialist
> thrusts such as that of the AFL will aggravate it.
> Your main thing is you are against the Chinese government
> ,but on this thread you
>
>
> Steve: Not in the least, being a Marxist does not oblige me to heap
> unrealistic praise on US unions. In fact vis their call to keep China out
> of the WTO, I have no interest in promoting such a stance. However, I am
> friendly with Marxists in CHina who do not want China to enter the WTO,
> but for very different reasons than the AFL-CIO. BTW, you might even note
> that the stalwart defender of Chinese Nationalism, Henry CK Liu, has even
> been critical of China's plan to enter the WTO. Now, Charles, is Henry CK
> Liu an enemy of the Chinese government?
>
> **************
>
> CB: I know what Henry CK Liu's position is on China in the WTO. As a matter of fact, I got the WW editorial from Henry CK Liu. Evidently he agrees with the Workers World statement criticizing the AFL-CIO statement on China.
>
> **************
Henry Liu: I am advocate of Asian nationalism as a strategy to oppose US hedgemony and globalization. I promote Chinese nationalism as a strategy to build socialism in China. As soon as US hedgemony is destroy, I am no more use for Chinese or Asian nationalism.
I am in agreement with CB and with the WW editorial, not because I am anti-labor, as many of the pseudo-left Pen-l and LBO-talk have accused me of, nor because the current AFL-CIO position of anti-China/WTO, but because the AFL-CIO is, behind it all, anti-labor and a tool of capitalism. Steve and I have been debating this issue for a long time. I have no doubt that he is sincere in his belief. Yet from my perspective, Steve position is misguided and single dimensional.
Henry