Daniel Wrote:
> >> Ahmad is not actually capable of
> >> critiquing Said on theoretical grounds,
> >
Steve responded:
> >This just seems to be assertion, any examples?
>
Yoshie then follows with:
> The main theoretical ground of Ahmad's critique of Said's _Orientalism_ is
> that Said, despite his nod of recognition in the direction of Gramsci,
> fails to take a historical materialist approach to the critique of
> Orientalism. Said writes: "Almost from earliest times in Europe the Orient
> was something more than what was empirically known about it" (55). Said
> goes on to produce his "evidence" that Orientalism existed "from earliest
> times in Europe" by turning to ancient Greek drama:
>
> ***** Two of the most profoundly influential qualities associated with
> the East appear in Aeschylus's _The Persians_, the earliest Athenian play
> extant, and in _The Bacchae_ of Euripides, the very last one extant.
> Aeschylus portrays the sense of disaster overcoming the Persians when they
> learn that their armies, led by King Xerxes, have been destroyed by the
> Greeks. The chorus sings the following ode:
>
> Now all Asia's land
> Moans in emptiness.
> Xerxes led forth, oh oh!
> Xerxes' plans have all miscarried
> In ships of the sea.
> Why did Darius then
> Bring no harm to his men
> When he led them into battle,
> That beloved leader of men from Susa?
>
> What matters here is that Asia speaks through and by virtue of the European
> imagination, which is depicted as victorious over Asia, that hostile
> "other" world beyond the seas. To Asia are given the feelings of
> emptiness, loss, and disaster that seem thereafter to reward Oriental
> challenges to the West; and also, the lament that in some glorious past
> Asia fared better, was itself victorious over Europe. (Said 56) *****
>
> Now, Said's reading of _The Persians_ is patently anachronistic. The
> Athenians who staged _The Persians_ did not possess what Said calls "the
> European imagination." They thought of themselves in terms of class,
> gender, their city state, and Hellene; "Europe" as (we think) we know it
> did not exist in ancient Greece, much less "the European imagination"!
> _The Persians_ does express Athens's pride in its democratic virtue (which
> Aeschylus credits for a victory over Persia), but many Athenians were proud
> of its democracy, not because they thought their "European" virtue made
> them democratic unlike the Persians, but because they often felt, rightly
> or wrongly, superior to all other peoples, including free citizens of other
> Greek city states such as Sparta. In fact, _The Persians_ is remarkable in
> its empathetic identification with the defeated Persians, whose sorrows are
> compellingly portrayed, in contrast to what Orientalism (which, pace Said,
> has its origin in modernity, capitalism, and imperialism) says about the
> Orientals' cruelty, indifference to pain & suffering, etc.
>
> Further, whether Said likes it or not, it is a historical truth that Persia
> _was_ defeated by the Hellenic league, which doesn't make the denizens of
> Greek city states "orientalist." Also, as a matter of fact, the Greek
> unity against Persia was very short-lived. The Peloponnesian War came to
> its virtual end in 405 B.C.E. when the Persian-backed Spartans defeated the
> Athenians decisively in the battle of Aegospotami.
>
> In short, Said obscures the origin of Orientalism by falsely assimilating
> the world before capitalism (including ancient Greece!) to our modern world.
>
> Yoshie
>
>
>