Oh, I agree with you that the US had no business waging war in Korea, and should, moreover, withdraw its current forces from that country. But I do not think that the merits of anti-imperialism and nonintervention are relevant to whether N.K. (or indeed, S.K.), has a legitimate form of government.
I note, moreover, that if being an American disqualifies someone from commenting on whether various forms of government are legitimate, taht you are out too, Charles. You are in no position to praise the dictatorship of the proletariat in N.K., being an American and all. However, you don't really believe that. You just disagree with us about what is a legitimate form of government. You think that what I would call a Stalinist dictatorship is just fine, while you dispise the mere formalities of bourgeois democracy. I see things just the other way around, and both of us think we can make these judgments about other countries.
As for the "redbaiting" remark, it is indeed clear that this is (directed at people on the left like me) the equivalent of calling an antiZionist Jew "self-hating," taht is, it is a stupid ad hominem. I have been redbaited and then some Charles; I lost my job and my career to it. There is a difference between that and honest if brutal criticism.
In your legitimate society, I would be dead or in jail as an enemy of the people; that is not "redbaiting" but a fact, and you would be happy to see me there. That strikes me as a fair criticism of your ideal regime. from my point of view. --jks
In a message dated Thu, 6 Jul 2000 3:42:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Charles Brown" <CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us> writes:
<< Such blatant redbaiting.
A better formulation of democracy , legitimate government, than Brad D.'s is the working class as the ruling class, the dictatorship of the proletariat. Korea may not be quite there but they are as close or closer than the U.S. , so the U.S. has no legitmate basis to wage war on Korea based on U.S. having a legitimate government and Korea not having a legitimate government.
The important point here is that Brad D's use of the famous U.S. formulations is coupled with his justification of U.S. imperialist aggression against Korea, which aggression makes a total mockery of even the old U.S. formulation of legitimate government, because the U.S. warrior presence in Korea is the least legitimate, less legitimate than the North Korean government, presence in Korea. In other words, the North Korean government meets the Brad D. formulation better than Brad's D's U.S. government does in Korea. So , get the fuck out of Korea, America, and quit trying to tell the Koreans what a legitimate government is, Americans Brad D. and Justin.
All Power to the People ( We, the People, that the founding white fathers had a glimpsing thought of).
CB
>>> JKSCHW at aol.com 07/05/00 04:17PM >>>
So, Charles, your alternative? Legitimate government represents the interest of the working class as understood by the unitary Central Committee of the only permitted Party, dissenters will be jailed or exiled or shot as counterrevolutionaries, just like in the democratic paradise, North Korea? If not that, then what? --jks
In a message dated Wed, 5 Jul 2000 3:17:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Charles Brown" <CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us> writes:
<<
>>> delong at econ.Berkeley.EDU 07/02/00 08:09PM >>>
How can you tell which governments are legitimate? It's pretty easy.
Legitimate governments:
(a) derive their just powers from the consent of the governed...
(b) secure life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for their citizens...
)))))))))))))))
CB: In other words, the Founding Great White Fathers of the United States defined what a legitimate government is, and the American war machine will make damn sure that the whole world abides by the Great White Fathers' orders.
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