From Ken to Joanna:
>The post-punk Slovenian band Laibach has an interesting take on this: When
>asked about their attitude towards America they replies, "Like Americans, we
>also believe in God, but unlike them we do not trust Him." I think this is
>absolutely fascinating: Yes, I believe in the Ideals of the Enlightenment
>(freedom, democracy, happiness, autonomy, solidarity yadda yadda) but unlike
>the Enlightenment thinkers: I don't trust them! I'm not even sure I'd call
>myself an atheist. It just isn't an issue for me. Atheism seems, to me, to beg
>for a theistic rejoinder... I'd rather not give the theists a reason to talk.
I don't think that the silence of "atheists" would help silence theists. Conservative theists in America mainly talk among themselves (like-minded conservatives), then attack other theists whose opinions & practice differ from theirs, and then only as an an afterthought discuss "atheists" (and that mainly through PR campaigns that reduce "atheists" to bogeymen, instead of directly responding to us). Understandably so, since "atheists" are such a minority in America, and hence not worth spending much time on. Besides, there is little chance of religious conservatives converting "atheists" to their cause, whereas it makes a lot of sense for them to take on religious liberals and left-wingers in order to re-define each congregation's, denomination's, & faith's political direction. Intra-congregational, -denominational, & -faith politics is of utmost importance to theists in that how church money gets spent, who holds positions of power, etc. are at stake. Interfaith politics -- cooperation to work on the shared agenda when there is any, as well as competition to out-fish one another in membership -- comes next to that.
At 11:51 AM -0400 7/9/00, Chip Berlet wrote:
>Fundamentalism was not a
>reaction to the feminist movement it was a reaction to Mainline Protestant
>denominations adapting to Modernity.
I'd qualify Chip's remark, in so far as the "Modernity" that fundamentalists and other religious conservatives most dislike are aspects of modernity that concern political changes wrought by feminists & feminist-friendly leftists. They have not only adapted themselves to but learned to take advantage of other parts of modernity -- radio, television, internet, opinion polls, direct mass mailing, etc. -- that do not necessarily threaten their visions of the theocratic social order. That said, I agree with Chip that fundamentalism is "a reaction to _Mainline Protestant_ denominations adapting to Modernity," especially what they probably perceive to be the hegemony of liberalism in them.
Here's an excerpt from _The Church in Bondage: Problems and Trends in the United Methodist Church_ by Allen O. Morris, M.B.A. to give LBO-talkers a taste of intra-denominational politics that religious conservatives (a larger group than "fundamentalists") have been waging against religious liberals and leftists:
***** A Third example involves the first International Youth Conference for Mission (IYCM).(8) On August 10, 1999, the United Methodist Women's Division sponsored a missions training camp for teenagers from around the world. The first International Youth Conference for Mission (IYCM) convened July 3-11 at Geneva Point Center in Center Harbor, New Hampshire. The Women's Division paid for the travel of the 150 youth and 50 adults who attended. Each person's travel cost averaged about $2,000, making the total cost about $400,000.
The beginning of the week started out like any other church camp. Icebreakers were used to help everyone get to know one another, but theological persuasions eventually were revealed. The adult leaders seemed to test how far they could go with certain concepts, such as calling God Mother, or referring to people as "co-creators" with God. Sometimes students openly objected to unorthodox theological assertions or at least shared their puzzlement.
Some youth from the South Central Jurisdiction asked the camp organizers for a workshop on homosexuality. At first the leaders liked the idea, until they found out the students intended to reinforce biblical principles and official UM teachings regarding sexuality. According to some of the students, Joyce Sohl scotched their proposal, explaining that such a workshop would be too troublesome.
Some of the workshop subjects were: Mission and Justice, Racial Justice, and Environmental Justice. Some youth asked what these themes had to do with missions. Many youth were looking for practical ways to share their faith in Christ, but instead learned about the political agenda of the Women's Division. David Wildman, a seminar designer for the Women's Division, led a workshop on Violence and Justice. He claimed that Jesus was assassinated for His political beliefs.
Nicole Roskos, a student of ecological and feminist theology at Drew University, led a workshop on Environmental Justice. She performed a satire about the "Biotic Baking Brigade"(BBB). The BBB is a group of comic vigilantes who throw meringue pies in the faces of corporate "criminals" and their accomplices: Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates, Mayor Willie Brown of San Francisco, Milton Friedman, lawyer Robert Shapiro, and Sierra Club director Carl Pope. Most of the youth looked uncomfortable during the play and did not appreciate its supposed humor. A staunch advocate of civil disobedience, she told the youth that sometimes violence is necessary to combat certain injustices.... and claimed that Jesus was a radical political activist, based on His clearing the moneychangers out of the Temple. She gave advice to students on how to avoid getting arrested at protests, and how to get arrested when politically desirable.
Tamara Walker, a GBGM staff person, led the workshop on Mission and Justice. Like Roskos, she also condemned capitalism, focusing on the exploitation of foreign labor markets by large American corporations. But her solution appeared not to be based on spiritual transformation through the Gospel, but rather government regulation and control of private industry. According to a hand-out that Walker distributed, our "mission is to challenge the false gods of our times": ego-centrism, materialism, militarism, economic exploitation, exploitation of the earth, race, class and gender privilege, etc.
Throughout the conference the youth questioned statements from workshop leaders. A young woman stood up and read the first stated goal of the GBGM: to witness to the Gospel for initial decision to follow Jesus Christ. Upon finishing she asked, "If this is a missions conference, and this is your number one goal, then why hasn't it even been mentioned?" The adult leaders seemed unable to respond.
Stewardship is important to God. How about to us?
<http://cmpage.org/bondage/chapt3.html> *****
According to my friend & fellow Columbus activist Connie Hammond, the line of thinking represented by Allen O. Morris is what leftist & feminist Methodists like her are up against in the church.
Yoshie