>>> Wojtek Sokolowski <sokol at jhu.edu> 03/03/00 01:19PM >>>
At 01:03 PM 3/2/00 -0500, Charles wrote:
>CB: You still don't understand racism. With respect to the phenomenon you
are discussing, it is the DIFFERENCE between white rates of criminality and
black rates of criminality is explained by racism, past and present. In
society , such as it is, a certain percentage of people are going to be
criminals. But the social mechanisms that create criminals impact the black
population more than the white population BECAUSE OF RACISM. Black
unemployment , poverty, homelessness, broken families, lost opportunities ,
etc. are higher because of racism. These are the root causes of criminality.<
Charles, I have a rather thorough training in social science - far too thorough not just to dismiss the importance of social conditions in explaining human behavior, but also to fall for mono-causal explanations, especially ones that ignore human agency.
*************** CB: Let me train you a little more in social science. In this case the mono or main cause of the differences between the RACES is RACISM. Afterall race is a "monovariable". In explaning the differences between people AS MEMBERS OF GROUPS, social explanations are appropriate. Sometimes one social factor predominates. *************
In plain English - the playing field in the US is far from being level, and many groups face numerous institutional obstacles in many aspects of their lives. Only an ideologically blinded conservative can deny that. But these institutional obstacles are not sufficient to explain why some people become drug dealers or junkies, whereas other - supreme court justices, or leading intellectuals or political activists. Only an ideologically blined knee-jerk liberal can deny the role of human agency in shaping our lives.
************
CB: The difference between whites and blacks AS GROUPS or socially is explained by a social factor. Individuals blacks and whites may be exceptions to the social generalization. For example, I have three university degrees. Do you have more ? If not, then you and I as individuals are an exception to social generalization that whites have more education than blacks, but that exception doesn't invalidate the statistical generalization or the social explanation of that generalization.
The fact that human agency shapes our lives does not mean that social strucutures , such as racism, also shape our lives. Diallo could have had all the human agency in the world, but it wouldn't have saved him from being murdered because he was Black, i.e. a member of a GROUP, a social cause of his death.
************
Just look at yourself - you most likely faced the same instituional obstacles as most blacks in this country, but nonetheless you became a lawyer and an intellectual - and you are not alone. Now, is it a result of a "historical accident" or "affirmative action" as Repugs maintain, or your persoanl determination not to give the power to your enemies to stop you from achieving a success? I would like to think it is the latter - or at least such is the case of the people I personally know.
**********
CB: My grandfathers were a doctor and a minister. My father is a lawyer. Those seems like historical accidents and social causes that made me more likely to become college educated and a lawyer. Also, I benefitted from affirmative action. No doubt there was some human individual agency involved, but it was also highly social.
**************
>
>How do YOU explain the higher rate of Black crime in the U.S. ? Certainly
not because of "Black culture" hip hop etc. That would be a symbolic
explanation. It is the racist socio-economic structure, the racist
division of labor and relations of production that cause higher Black
crime. Gangster hip hop/rap was not the only or main rap created by Black
youth. It was the white music company moguls who chose "gangster rap" to
promote. They suppressed the politically progressive and radical rap, for
they didn't want Black anger against racism to be directed against the
racist system. It was capitalist music industry decisions that polluted the
minds of millions of Black youth with "gangster rap".<
Precisely my point. I read somewhere (forgot the source) that rap was initially rejected by most black stations because it was seen as a form of bastardized fad that misrepresented black culture (I would certainly think so, just by juxtaposing rap with anyone from Bob Marley to Miles Davies - but hey, I am just an ageing hippie :). It was white stations that promoted it as a counter-cultural fad, cultural commodity sold to middle class teens.
But it is more than just hip-hop - it is the whole ghetto culture of self-destruction anad "race to the bottom" that ensnarls many poor kids who have nothing else to fall on. Just to illustrate that: my son was a part of the anti-establishment crowd in the high school - the save Mumia, graffiti, hip-hop etc. crowd - but today he is in a private college, while some of his buddies - push dope or languish in jail. He could afford 'counter-culture' - his buddies could not. You will probably say it is structural, and I agree. But I will also say that you have to have a self-preservation instinct and think to better yourself and your people, not self-destruct. It's not rocket science, it's common sense.
A broader point I want to make is that exceptionalism may be good legitimating ideology, but it is usually bad social science. The reason I compared US blacks to Poles is not to delegitimize claims for social justice, but to use comparisons to understand the nature of the underclass marginalization and the role culture plays in that process.
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CB: But I am not arguing exceptionalism. I am arguing that racism causes the differences between the races as groups. That is not only social justice, but social fact. It is a thing-in-itself. ************
Just consider what the sociological classic by Thomas & Znaniecki (written ca. 1920) say about Polish peasant immigrants in Europe and the US - they faced double obstacles, systemic ineqalities of the system, and limitations imposed onthem by their own culture. Moreover, the bastardized version of their own culture was often a self-defeating, self-destructing response to institutional obstacles encountered in the new society. That fact that such subculture was rooted in unsuccesful adaptation of these imigrants to a new society does not change the basic fact that it was also self defeting , creating firther obstacles, and making the people who esposed even more worse off thatn they initially had been.
Pointing to these self-destructive mechanisms is far from "blamig the victim" or similar bullshit from liberal pop-psychology - it can help us understand the complicated nature of interaction between individuals and various social institutions.
*********** CB: It is not that many Black people in social and personal crisis do not have self-destructive behavior, or that there social factors other than race ( such as class) that contribute to the behavior. It is that the greater occurrence of these types of behavior between blacks and whites AS GROUPS are caused by racism. The differences between Polish immigrants to the U.S. and native born white groups are probably caused significantly by anti-immigrant prejudice, at least earlier in the migrations.
***********
>
>Race and analysis of racism is not analysis of irrelevant symbolism.
Racism is material condition (infrastructural, not superstructural ) as
much as class oppression is. Your claim that it is "symbolism" gives you a
distorted, not clearer , understanding of race and racism in the U.S.<
I think you misread my postings. I am not saying that racism is just symbolism, I'm saying it can be both - meaningless symbolism AND material condition.
************
CB: OK , sorry. We have some agreement on this. I agree it is both symbol and material condition, though I am not sure that "meaningless symbol" is not an oxymoron. It may have an unpleasant meaning, but the symbol of race has meaning, it has significance. That's what a symbol is: something with meaning. ***********
The devil is how you operationalize & measure it. I've seen a lot of good studies e.g. in the segmented labor market tradition (in fact I am using them in my methods calss) demonstrating the measurable effects of race or gender on employment. But I've also seen racism being used as a bullshit expostfacto justification of "anything goes" attitude or a sham to muster support for a politician or self-appointed leader. As I said before, I've gon enough training in social science to tell one from the other.
**************
CB: Agree. I am interested in the segmented labor market tradition.
The main bullshit and sham use of race is by racists, not those who cry racism. Although there is some of the latter, the forces of racism exaggerate its frequency, using phrases such as "playing the race card". The main players of the race card are the white racists, including usually institutions such as the Detroit News and monopoly media when they slander Black politicians, such as Coleman Young , as playing the race card. It is the white supremacists who invented playing the race card, injecting race as a sham and confusing canard. Now the main racist game is to accuse Blacks of "playing the race card". Can't fool us. We know who the racists are and who the racees are. We are the consummate social scientists on racism, trained by theory and practice.
CB