Henry Liu is Chinese

Charles Brown CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us
Mon Mar 27 11:20:36 PST 2000

>>> Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> 03/27/00 01:50PM >>>
Charles Brown wrote:

The subject heading is a little weird. Yes, Henry Liu is Chinese. So what?


CB: It is replying to a post in which you speak of him as a First Worlder. China is the socalled "Third World".


>CB: The validity of this whole critique of Henry is dependent upon
>the implicit critique of the PRC. I don't buy this critique of the
>PRC. I think it reflects the anti-communism of the liberal left,
>which has been horrendous for the Western working class in the
>historical long term. In other words, at least the Chinese
>Communists had a Communist Revolution. If you , your political trend
>and country had had one , I could take your criticisms of the PRC a
>lot more seriously

Well your country is the same as mind, so I'm not sure what you're saying here. And your political trend hasn't had a revo here. So is what you say invalid too?


CB: My trend has had a revolution in China.

My political trend did have a revolution here. I have always said here, after Herbert Aptheker, that the U.S. Civil War was a revolution, because it overthrew one of the main forms of private property in the U.S. system, property in humans. The abolitionist movement was a revolutionary movement ( See _Abolitionism: a Revolutionary Movement_ by Herbert Aptheker ).

The lack of socialist revolution here has not been because my anti-communism or my trend's anti-communist criticisms of communist countries. _________

Yes, China had a revolution long ago. One can criticize the revolution's shortcomings, but I won't deny it was a revolution on Communist principles. But it's not revolutionary any more. China is well on the way to becoming an authortiarian developmentalist/capitalist state. But we've been through this territory before, and I don't see any virtue in going over it again.


CB: Well, kind of had to discuss that because your criticism of Henry Liu was sort of braided together with a criticism of the PRC.

So, according to you all real world Communist revolutions have failed so far ?


>CB: I could see some of this imagery sort of boomeranging.
>Also, I don't quite understand your claim that Henry is a First
>Worlder and that China is an "Other" for him. I think China is a
>"Same" for Henry Liu.

Henry has lived in this country for decades. New York, like many other U.S. cities, is full of people born elsewhere who now live & work here. His place of birth and physical appearance may make him seem "Chinese," but he lives his life as an American, regardless of his citizenship status. I don't define "American" like some Buchananite nativist - do you?


CB: No , I'd emphasize the person deciding for themselves what they "are" upon the principle of self-determination. What do you think Henry Liu says he is ? Shall we ask him ? Or is it the "Others" who decide what he is ?


More information about the lbo-talk mailing list