>>> Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> 05/01/00 05:05PM >>>
Charles Brown wrote:
> >>> Doug Henwood <dhenwood at panix.com> 05/01/00 04:50PM >>>
>Apsken at aol.com wrote:
>
>>Doug wrote,
>>
>>> While the absolute immiseration thesis has turned out largely wrong -
>>
>>Whose absolute immiseration thesis? Is that a Zizek idea? Karl Marx wrote in
>>Volume One of Capital, ". . . be his [sic] payment high or low, the lot of
>>the worker must grow worse."
>
>Well that's just dead wrong, isn't it?
>
>___________
>
>CB: Is that an idiot question or a clever question ?
An assertion, followed by a request for consent. To say that the worker's lot has grown worse over the last 150 years is wrong, and I have a hard time believing anyone would argue to the contrary. But I've known people to argue all sorts of things, so I was inviting disagreement.
__________
CB: I think there are two weaknesses in the comments of those who criticize this assertion by Marx. They don't include in the category "workers" the billions in the Third World who maybe absolutely worse off under capitalism than they were under their traditional economies. They forget that as capitalism has expanded out of Europe making more and more of the whole world capitalist, capitalism is responsible for the livelihood of more and more people, and many more than in Marx's day. Marx could have been anticipating this,. When you add them all up, the ratio of poor to better off workers may be higher now.
Also, more "things" is not exactly more wealth. I guess what I am saying is that capitalism generates a lot of bullshit "use"-values. Also, there is growing pressure to have more and more, which pressure can make one's lot worse. The quality of life of a person with lots of modern commodities can be worse than the quality of life of someone in Cuba , say. I'd have to review the famous passage by Marx, but he may be commenting on the fact that the lot of a worker can get worse , even as the worker consumes more and more commodities. For example, autoworkers have much bigger salaries than a number of years ago, but overtime is growing, and they have to work it to keep up with the Jones.
CB