Yes, and no. People knew the Nazis were brutes, but not that they were going to be mass murderers. (Even they probably didn't know it.) As for brutes, there were a lot of them about, some closer to home. This was the time of Scottsboro and large-scale lynching in the US, which therefore had little jutification in being self-satisfied about antiracism. Charles usually doesn't make anything of it, but he _is_ African American, and from that point of view the difference between the Nazis in the 30s and America in the 30s, especially in the South, was not so great. If you doubt me, read, e.g., Leon Littwack's Been in the Storm so Long, or (gasp) Gynnar Myrdal's An American Dilemma. Jesse Owens beat Hitler's runners and went home to--Jim Crow and lynching. And for all my anti-Stalinism, I'll say this: The CP was the main group of mainly white Americans in the 30s who were real strong and clear on racial equality here at home, make no mistake. --jks
>From: Rob Schaap <rws at comedu.canberra.edu.au>
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com
>To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com
>Subject: Re: Allies against fascism?
>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 04:17:18 +1100
>
>G'day Charles,
>
> >This also applies to the non-aggression pact that the Soviets signed with
> >>Germany before the war.
>
>I'm not saying there weren't sensible reasons for the pact, but I reckon
>someone in the SU must have leafed through Mein Kampf, or read about
>Cristalnacht in the papers. The Nazis were already demonstrably the worst
>thing going in Western Europe. Trotsky got their number in a 1933 article
>in Harpers Magazine, too.
>
> >It is only with hindsight, that we know the extent of the Nazi horrors.
>
>We didn't know the full extent, no. But we knew plenty.
>
> >German fascism was not necessarily worse than Francoism from the
> >standpoint of >the 1930's.
>
>Don't think Stalin minded Franco too much at all really. He didn't try
>very hard to fight the bastard - too busy shooting up the POUM and rifling
>the Spanish treasury ... but none of us in the west is, I suppose, in the
>position to criticise anyone when it comes to the Spanish war ... well,
>'cept for mebbe 60000 comrades who deserve more remembering than they get.
>
> >The distinction between Germany and the other capitalist countries was
>not
> >as >sharp as it was after the war, and which we can see with hindsight.
>
>I know I'm gonna sound a bit DeLongish here, but I passionately disagree
>about this. Plenty of writers in papers and mags had the Nazis' number,
>Churchill saw 'em for what they were and said so often enough, and there
>were thousands of erstwhile German residents telling anyone who'd listen
>(but perhaps there, too, we should not be too high'n'mighty - as 'who'd
>listen' wasn't a lot ... ). Anyway, we knew plenty by 1938 - not just
>plenty, but enough. The distinction WAS BIG!
>
>Cheers,
>Rob.
>
>
>
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