Glad you did know about Casey, though (as I noted in anothere post) a ban on DX abortions would have been OK under the Roe trimester framework. I am not particularly "comfy" or complacent about what a Bush victory might mean for the courts, including for abortion rights. In fact, I may be less comfy than you, as I am worried about the lower courts as well as the Supremes. I don't know what in my message made you think I was being a foolish Panglossian.
Nonetheless I have already cast my vote for Nader--I confess I was wavering up until the last moment. What decided me is an argument I have deployed many times over the dozen years since I broke with the Dems myself: if we are serious about progressive politics, we have to be willing to hurt the Dems, because a growing progressive force cust into their support; and for a long time, that will mean spoiling things, especially as our movement grow stronger--as we hope they will. If we are not willing to do this, we should call it a day and just be good good little Democrats. If we are, we have to be willing to take our lumps. I am not being flip. It will hurt. But if we are not willing to do that, we should be honest about giving up.
--Justin Schwartz
> >
> > Hi Justin, actually I knew this, and had said this in a much ,longer
> > version of the post I sent the list which I cut because it was too long.
> > Casey was where the rot set in. But I think the dissenters in Carhart
> > wanted to go a step further. they wanted to say: even if your health
> > will de damaged, you can't have this procedure. the point about undue
> > burden was that they were supposed to be undue -- not determinative of
> > whether you could have a procedure or not. Just something you had to go
> > through on the way to make you "think' or "be sure" or "have all the
> > facts." I believe Casey left the door open for pro-0choicers to
> > demonstrate that particular burdens were in fact preventing women from
> > getting abortions. (as they are) But all attempts to make this case
> > have fallen on deaf ears. Sandra Day O'connor in particular never met a
> > burden she didn't like.
> > Thing about kennedy is -- there is no way of performing a second or
> > third trimester abortion that cannot be made to look gruesome. If he
> > thinks "partial birth" is infanticide, why not the alternatives --
> > poisoning that same fetus in the womb, or cutting it up into pieces.
> > today it may seem to him like the crucial element is that in p-b the
> > fetus is partially outside the womb. tomorrow, that may seem just a
> > detail.
> > of course nobody knows what kennedy would do in a case that offered
> > the opportunity to overturn roe. But you should be able to understand
> > why not everyone feels as comfy as you, or thinks voting for Nader is
> > worth the risk of finding out.
> > you know, every time a naderite scoffs at the danger to abortion or
>SC
> > generally from Bush I feel my pro-nader feelings slipping away. It's not
> > a winning strategy.
> >
> > katha
> >
> > > >Katha,
> > > >
> > > >Wake up! The Roe trimester framework is dead, killed by Casey, and
> > > >replaced with the undue burden standard. Roe is not the law as far
> > > >as trimesters goes. Really, abortion rights activists should know
> > > >this.
> > > >
> > > >--Justin Schwartz (a lawyer)
> > > >
> > > >Katah Pollit says.
> > > >
> > > >Second, the
> > > >>bans
> > > >>clearly DO violate Roe, by permitting the criminalization of a
>procedure
> > > >>performed during the second trimester, when such bans are
>explicitly
> > > >>forbidden by Roe, and by disregarding women's health which Roe
> > > >>explicitly says must come first at EVERY STAGE of pregnancy. file
> > > >>>at
> > > >>> http://profiles.msn.com.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
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