>Messsage du 25/11/2000 09:34
>De : <lbo-talk at lists.panix.com>
>A : <lbo-talk at lists.panix.com>
>Copie à :
>Objet : Taking the cure
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> Well after a few good laughs about how old this thread was,
> considering Larry's wife was in the Alcatraz take over (while he was
> in Vietnam) and I was kicked out of CORE for being white--we settled
> down to the serious business of figuring out what kind of medicine was
> needed.
>
yeah, race is old, exhausting bullshit. i really hate it and wish it would go away so that we could spend more time talking about much more intereting things like innovations in 'jazz' piano or the role that quantum tunneling may play in consciousness but race keeps fucking with my life so...
the best medecine for 'white' folk is for them to have some kind of crisis (ongoing or sudden) that forces them to relinquish their membership in the white race. the crisis will come--or maybe it has arrived already. no social construct last forever. that said, it is important, to do the best we can to prepare for the inevitably nasty and very varied fallout from this struggle, which is one of the reasons that these discussions are important.
> Larry's theory was this is a problem in race-hate, which is a form of
> self hate, which is a problem of confusion
yes, i think, but sounds like larry is assuming race as something real; or no?
---confusing yourself with
> somebody else. He thinks it's something like men who want to be women
> or people who want somebody else's stuff.
>
yeah, these things seem to be involved, sort of, but this really is not clear to me.
> I know some of you empirical types are out there laughing.
matter matters, at least for those phenomenah, including us, which experience some form of consciousness; and there is nothing wrong with seeking out proofs for our intuitions and curiousities about the universe; that said, i don't consider myself a materialist, an empericist, or a spiritualist, and i'm not laughing at you but i do consider this approach to the question odd and unnecessarily circuitous.
But this is
> a disease of the spirit and it can only be cured by cures of the
> spirit.
>
what is the spirit? i don't ask this question as a reductionist or materialist, just as somebody who knows that the term "spirit" is often used as a catch-all for things we don't understand--which would be fine if those who used such terms acknowledged as much instead of acting as if they knew exactly what spirit is. indeed, a lot of people, mostly white folks, are making big money as spirtual pimps, new age or otherwise. i think the term is best avoided at least until the contradictions of "spiritual discourse" are resolved so that "spirituality" becomes a more grounded referent, not the too-often dummifying commodity it currently is.
I will bet if you went on a quest to find a coyote with white tips,
> caught him and took some of his white hairs, found one of these birds
> and took some of their feathers, and made your medicine bag, and then
> went to a traditional sweat lodge--I will bet if you did all this you
> would be cured.
are you saying that politics is not necessary? and nope, sorry. firt of all, don't fuck with the coyotes; they deserve a break from human foolishness, be it of the white, black or indiginous variety. second, there are a heap of white folk who do varitions of this stuff all the time. they are often times the same ones who associate the spiritual realm with native americans and native americans alone ("soul" is the preserve of black folk), and often times the ones who are running around talking about how they are 1/4 cherokee or whatever (when the last time you heard any white folk talking about how they are 1/4 black?)
let's face it: white folk are totally lost and there some native americans and black folk who revel in the role of spiritual guide to whitey, sometimes because it makes them feel worthy after a lifetime of feeling lesser than white folk, sometimes because it pays, sometimes because the sex is good, whatever...
>
> Well it makes perfect sense to me. Let me put it this way. Real white
> people don't do shit like that.
you clearly have not been to one of these new age retreats in cali where white folks do all kinds of crazy ass stuff in the woods in an effort to reclaim the soul they sacrificed when they dealt for membership in the white race.
chris niles
the new abolitionist>
>