RES: RES: Said on American Zionism

Alexandre Fenelon afenelon at
Tue Oct 17 12:24:51 PDT 2000

-----Mensagem original----- De: owner-lbo-talk at [mailto:owner-lbo-talk at]Em nome de Nathan Newman Enviada em: terça-feira, 17 de outubro de 2000 16:40 Para: lbo-talk at Assunto: Re: RES: Said on American Zionism


To say democracy is an either/or situation like pregnancy is ridiculous. Of course there are levels and extents of democracy. Syria's cult of personality and consent by mass murder (ie. Hama) is at the worst end of the spectrum. -Israel commits large scale murder too (something like 1,000 civilian deaths -during Intifanda)

Israel's combines a freewheeling internal democracy with elected Arab politicians combined with dramatic repression of West Bank and Gaza Palestinians. That Israelis consider Arabs traitors, yet their elected leaders remain in government is exactly the point of what makes Israel more democratic within the pre-1967 borders.

-So Israeli democracy could be compared with apartheid´s South Africa, right?

A negotiated settlement is no doubt the best way for a long-term peace, but if Israel refuses to negotiate a withdrawal from the West Bank and Gaza, the minimal action progressives should promote is the withdrawal of US aid to Israel. I doubt much more would be needed to force such a withdrawal.

-I doubt if a negotiated settlement is possible, since Israel doesn´t want -to make real concessions. The Peace process was essentially started in -order to have a Palestinian doing the "dirty job" for the Israelis. A -bantustan would be the best comparison. A true state for the Palestinians -will never be accepted by Israel, due to security reasons in part, but -also due to more subtle questions (Water reserves in one of them, the -Jews use 80% of water in West Bank, despite the fact they are 10% of -the population). Even if Israel was willing to make significant concessions -(retreat from West Bank and Gaza, more fair division of Water, permission -to Palestinians have their own Army) I doubt if a Palestinian state would -be possible, due to abyssal economic conditions. A bantustan like arrangement -is inherently unstable, as the Israelis are already learning. I think the -only possible solution would include the unification of Israel and Palestinian -territories with granting of full Israeli citizenship to Palestinians. There -still remains the question of refugees return, but I can´t see any definite -solution different from this. But neither of the factions involved in the -conflict seems to be thinking seriously in such an arrangement.


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