>
>kelley, sugar, why are you so cruel to me?
because you like sweet 'n' sour
> You're sweet like honey and i
>love you madly, but you break my heart by twisting and distorting my
>arguments.
see, now we can make up tho! :)
>I do not care about guns, their safety, legality, or revolutionary
>potential. My quarrel is not with guns, but with gun fetishism.
but you did make a sweeping claim about how the gun nuts didn't use them safely. that's the issue. from my experience--and i'm around a lot more gun nuts than you, as you know--most people use them safely.
i told you, when we had a gun shop and i had an FFL, my wasband wouldn't sell guns to someone who couldn't read. and a lotta NRA types we hung out with at the shooting range agreed. if the guy can't read, then he can't, typically, learn about safety particularly well. etc. no, these are guys that go trap and skeet shooting 3-4 times a week!
furthermore, i have known and lived with gun enthusiasts ALL my life. i never ever caught one with a hard on while stroking his gun lovingly.
none of them have been super macho freaks. in fact, the ones i was intimate with were gentle, sweet, non-violent types. not one had ever been in a physical fight. one was a big wrestling type build kinda guy. he wouldn't hurt a flee! he loved his guns.
none of them fetishized guns. none of them enjoyed watching bang em up shoot em flicks any more than others. none of them liked violent porn. i could go on.
only 20 or so for my total N and 4 for my subgroup? that's far more than you have been able to use for illustration and argument.
>For
>different people guns epitomize different things: freedom, virility &
>sexual prowess, cockiness, conspiracy, the mother of all social ills, to
>name a few. This is why any discussion regarding gunz in this cuntry is,
>in fact, a kulturkampf.
so what? i've explained this before. i also think they are simply taken for granted by a lot of folks. they're just around.
for the enthusiast who hunts, hunting is a way of feeling you have some control over your life. *sigh* i've explained this before and even pointed out that there are sociological studies about this. anyway, the hunter likes the idea of getting the game and bringing it home. it's nostaligzing a past that never was perhaps, but it is NOT about any kind of evil virility. yes, it's about a sense of autonomy, doing things for yourself, having a challenge, but it's not about machismo
on my view, it is akin to the penchant for baking your own bread or sewing your own clothes. a yearning for a golden age.
>To further illustrate - I like cars with a manual transmission - partly
>beacuse they are cheaper and more fuel efficient, and partly because I am a
>European snob.
you left out the only reason i've always driven a stick: control over the vehicle in various kinds of traffic/road conditions.! my god. being able to dig yourself out of a ditch in the winter or pop the clutch when the battery died! how on earth can you miss the import of that !
:)
obviously the difference is the 2A. if you take that one away, reduce it, etc. you might as well chuck the rest of them out the window as well.
of course, doug things that's redick because we treat the C as sacred icon.
whathefuckeveR!
>That is precisely what gunz are in this cuntry - fetishes of what people
>desire or fear. The gun wars are really a debate about those desires and
>fears. That is Psychology 101. The only aspect of it that is mildly
>intersting for a sociologist is the process whereby this gun fetishism
>became a part of the Amerikun collective consciousness.
you are wrong about this however. and since you were waaaaay wrong on the authoritarian personality experiments long ago, i'll claim superiority in understanding motivation and knowing the lit on psych 101 since neither of us is a specialist in psych.
>As to your arrest story - it is indeed regrettable and my heart you so
>recklessly broke is with you in case you may need it, but the cop behavior
>you describe is not the eveidence of the Supreme Evil conspiracy plans to
>emasculate us. As the garbage can theory of organizational behavior
>teaches us, recourse to the past records and routines is a normal response
>of any organization under the condition of uncertainty.
that was my point. that's why we shouldn't give them a thing to use. it's not be/c i think it's evil conspiracy, but precisely because i'm student of org theory. i think those cops are perfectly decent people who don't intend to harm anyone.
just like joanna isn't a total idiot but doing what she does and hadn't thought through the implications.
they still piss me off, tho. i hold them accountable. that's because i also believe in the possibility of autonomy and freedom.
kelley
>wojtek