> >>> cramer at unix01.voicenet.com 09/07/00 10:25AM >>>
> There is no such thing as "prior" to the big bang. Time itself began with
> the big bang. A statement implying time outside of the big bang ("before
> the big bang", "cause of the big bang", etc.), is like saying "what is the
> sound of one hand clapping?" Your statement was correct, of course, it is
> just a peeve of mine to see people casually mention the big bang yet not
> fully apply the concept with their choice of words.
>
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> CB: What about the perspective that there has always been existence and
> time extends infinitely backward, that there is no beginning and no end
> (i.e. God) , but eternal change ? That would imply something before even
> the big bang.
Yes. I should have stated that there are other theories in addition to the big bang. The big bang is kind of just a convenient theory with no way to test. Physics and Cosmologists are able to describe the universe back pretty far, and in the context of the big bang theory, back to within a fraction of a second after the big bang. However, an accurate depiction of the big bang itself is not known; perhaps the big bang is not the most accurate model, after all!
BUT, if one is using the big bang model, then there is no time or existence outside or before it.
> Anyway, laws of physics, by definition ARE absolute. That is what makes
> them laws. F=ma is a law, gravitation is a law, etc. If they are shown
> to be not absolute, then they are not laws. Without accepting certain
> concepts as laws, it would be hard to apply the scientific method.
>
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> CB: Don't natural scientists' borrow the term "law" as a metaphor from
> laws of a human society ? And what of the dialectic of relative and
> absolute truth ?
Before I answer, and so I don't get flamed by snit, could you clarify whether you mean Hegelian dialectic or Marxian dialectic? I can see how they could both be applied when examinging truth.
Matt
-- Matt Cramer <cramer at voicenet.com> http://www.voicenet.com/~cramer/ He who makes his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.
-Thomas Paine