On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 13:36:53 -0400 (EDT), Matt Cramer <cramer at unix01.voicenet.com>
wrote:
>
>>> 1. And in going to shite, there are increasing examples of what
>>> may be called dick-slinging. However, also in going to shite,
>>> it has less and less to do with the "scene". Its become
>>> mainstream, something suits care about, something lusers have
>>> heard of. Just like Wired (*spit*). Hell, even /. , sometimes.
>> uhhh yeah. no dick slinging here.
>>
>> heh.
>
> Yeah, but that's not my open-source dick, its my "I'm better than
> all those ankle-biters" dick. Just about any "expert" in a field
> waves that dick around.
matt, man, sometimes you crack me up...
>> anyhooty, it's exactly my point: the professionalization of what
>> was once a marginalized/underground culture is inevitable
>> (woodchuck rant ring a bell?) with the expansion of the
>> information society. wotevAyawannacallit. see david noble's
>> _America By Design_ regarding the same wrt engineers, the
>> professionalization of engineers and the expansion of engineering
>> 'culture' to become mainstream. see, too, turf wars over who is
>> and is not an engineer and how to become one, who gets to be
>> called a hacker. etc
>
> Sure. The hacker/underground scene has a lot of dick-slinging, it
> always has. The "Computer Security Industry" has a lot more.
> Hell, look at the cDc - what'd they do - Back Orifice.
> 0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o. They are hackers that think they are a rock
> band, and sling a allota dick to prove it (not that there's
> anything wrong with that). Most website defacements are nothing
> but dick-slinging. So is virus writing (sometimes).
>
> I objected to the statement 'the open source movement is all about
> dick slinging'.
i keep trying to understand exactly where kelley is coming from. there *is* a difference between getting "professional" and getting cocky. but i don't think "free source" is getting either. you can't judge the free-source movement by eric raymond. raymond isn't the leader of the free-source movement (there are *no* "leaders"), although perhaps he envisions himself that way...
ultimately, kelley's problem is that she is trying to wedge hacker/coders into a comfortable paradigm so that she can explain (or understand?) it. it is not professional. it is *not* peer-reviewed (the whole concept of beta-testing is contrary to the elite nature of peer-review). and generally, free-source projects are chosen because they need to be done, not in order to prove anything...
> That's absurd, for the reasons I mentioned. If
> you say "much of the computer 'culture', to the non-guru, is a
> bunch of dick-slinging" I'll agree. Anything predominately
> comprised of evil white males is dick-slinging, or so I'm
> told. :-)
no doubt by snit herself!
ac
'''
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| the geek shall |
| inherit the earth |
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ooO Ooo
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