<html> Jim, <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>> Probably the major reason I don't >    trust GM foods is because the science that's been done on genetic >    modification is so obviously performed in the interests of capital >    and capital alone.  Which is irrational, because all food is produced under capitalist conditions and there is no special reason to distrust GM food as any more or less capitalistic. </blockquote> My (highly irrational) tomatoes beg to differ.  The system they are rooted in is capitalist, but they consider themselves to be a small enclave of resistance.  Happily, they are not alone. <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>But of course, Joanna's nod to leftism is not her substantial disagreement with GM food which is mostly quasi- religious hostility to tampering with God's plan.</blockquote> Didn't think I had it in me to be accused of quasi-religiosity, Jim, you flatter me.  I would contend that the Bible thumping lies all on the side of those who would try to persuade us that Daddy Monsanto knows best and we should just go deaf blind and dumb and swallow His Word.  How do you know it ain't snake oil, man?  Used to be religion (to quote one of my favourite Leninist rabbis) "had control of the principles of scientific inquiry and burnt people to keep its monopoly on ignorance and superstition".   Now maybe it's the Almighty Dollar keeps us all in check, eh.  <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>>Beyond that, it makes sense to be suspicious of >    genetic tampering because there is no guarantee GM foods will not >    have a negative impact on the ecology (whose health we all depend >    on for survival) by affecting animal and plant life all over the >    world in ways we can't yet anticipate. Which is just bizarre. There is no guarantee that you will not be run over by a bus tomorrow, or indeed that failing to develop new food production will not lead to worldwide famine.</blockquote> <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>One of the conditions of living in historical time is that there are no absolute guarantees. The desire to know the future in a literal sense belongs to magical thinking.</blockquote> Nonetheless we do our best to stay out of the way of moving busses, don't we, Jim.  This isn't (as you well know) about a desire to know the future, it's about insisting on making well-informed choices when it comes to taking a risk that involves not just the risk takers but the rest of human, animal and plant life. "Guarantee" does fall too easily into the simple-minded argument.  (It's like reminding a member of the NRA that guns kill people -- "Guns don't kill, people do".)  But I don't want to make this more complicated than it is.  Certainty is precisely what the likes of Monsanto pretend to offer.  I've likened it (believe it was on this list) to a new religion, this need for certainty that has gravitated from business to farming as farming has become more and more of a business.  Agriculture was always a vague science at best, and its practice full of risks.  We took what was there and made what we could of it.  Now some of us want to change what's there.  Considering the fact that we're not able to thoroughly stress-test our models, considering, with a shudder, how much short-term self-interest is involved in the experiments now being conducted, and considering how (but really) successful we are at fucking things up in general, there's a powerful likelihood we'll generate some material we don't know how to handle.  Not only is there no guarantee this ain't gonna blow up in our faces, there's every chance it will.  For that matter, there's some evidence it already has. <blockquote type=cite class=cite cite>One can be sure, though, that without scientific investigation of natural processes, that these natural processes will continue to destabilise human existence.</blockquote> I always thought it was we humans who were making life difficult for ourselves, and all along it was those damned natural processes. A few "crusading" maniacs with dollar signs in their eyes want to fling themselves at the project of stabilising human existence, as you might say.  Should the rest of us, lemming-like, follow the suits?  Not on my sweet tomaters. Joanna </html>