Scarcity

[Forstater, Mathew]

This reply both ignores the fact that admiration of "positive social values"
leaves room for rejection of other (not positive) aspects of societies and
indicates a real lack of awareness of the heterogeneity of noncapitalist social
formations with regard to the characteristics cited, and the degree to which
these characteristics are not found in many noncapitalist communities, are much
worse under capitalism, and require important qualifications in this context.
Modern European Capitalist Anti-semitism makes anything else pale in comparison.
Patriarchy is not characteristic of all noncapitalist communities and capitalist
patriarchy is arguably much worse than many noncapitalist forms.  Serfdom is
hardly characteristic of all noncapitalist social formations.  The charge of
"illiteracy" ignores the tremendous oral literatures of noncapitalist societies,
and the democratic integration of artisitc and creative traditions with daily
life.  Note that the term
"primitive community" indicates that Hobsbawm is not here talking about
feudalism, and especially European feudalism, which is what Brad seems to be
primarily refering to.  It would not even indicate major tributary
communal-despotic formations.  Rather, it would refer to those basically
stateless, classless, communities.  Again, why we are not able to learn from
what is best about societies without accepting the mistakes is beyond me (unless
it can be shown that the positive is inextricably linked to the negative, but
that must be demonstrated, not assumed).  In another context, why shouldn't
non-industrialized nations be able to learn from both the mistakes and the
advances of industrialized ones (use newer technologies without environmental
destruction--with the qualifier given just above)? Mat

-----Original Message-----
From: Brad DeLong [mailto:delong at econ.Berkeley.EDU]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 6:42 PM
To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com
Subject: RE: Scarcity


>In his intro to the
>Formen, Hobsbawm notes that Marx "found himself increasingly appalled" by the
>inhumanity of capitalism and that M and E "always admired the positive social
>values embodied, in however backward form, in the primitive community"...

Illiteracy? Patriarchy? Serfdom? Antisemitism?