> Funny Chuck- you are so busy trying to be more-radical-than-thou, you missed
> the point. I wasn't even talking about results - since breaking windows at
> Starbucks or even the shootout that landed Peltier in jail in the first
> place also do not necessarily get certain results.
The broken windows at Starbucks yielded positive results as far as I'm concerned.
> But my point was about reaching people to mobilize them, following up on the
> other Chuck's point- people are not always ready to get arrested, so if you
> don't start them on letter writing, they may never get to the point of
> getting arrested.
Shit, I'm not always ready to get arrested! I think there should be a range of tactics, but I reserve the right to be critical of them. I advocated that folks write letters to Clinton to pardon Peltier. It was apropos at the time. In retrospect, we now know that we should have been raising money to buy a pardon.
> >When you argue this old liberal canard about the activists taking
> >responsibility for their actions, you are using the nonviolence
> >yardstick to measure the dimensions of our protest. We make no pretense
> >of being law-abiding citizens who are using nonviolence to challenge
> >unjust laws.
>
> Fine- but why you whine about others having different strategies is beyond
> me. You want to undermine their strategies and they want to pursue theirs.
> The Black Bloc types are more authoritarian in dictating tactics to others
> than any group of activists out there.
No they aren't. They've opened up the terrain for folks to practice the tactics that they want to engage in. The Black Bloc types still participate in tactics that are used by other folks. The black bloc isn't done at every protest. This may warp the minds of any cops on this list, but some of the D.C. anarchists who do the block have been known to do candlelight vigils.
> >I don't know if you've ever been in jail for a political offense, but I
> >have.
>
> I have, a number of times. Nothing particularly bad happened to me, so I
> won't write elegies to my courage, but as I've noted, I don't talk where I
> haven't done.
My arrest involved no amount of courage. I was careless and I got caught.
> >Yes, a range of tactics can accomplish great goals, but I snicker when
> >those who lecture about these historical lessons try to narrow the
> >parameters of dissent. Those of you who were activists in the 1960s did
> >some great things, but you guys certainly didn't invent mass resistance
> >or civil disobedience, for that matter.
>
> I was in preschool in the 60s, so I don't know what you are talking about
> with this. I'm an activist of the 80s and 90s who has been arrested with
> anarchists, priests and every other variety of activist, and probably
> participated in most forms of activism that have been invented. And I agree
> new ones are being created all the time-- in fact, innovation is probably
> the most important part of activism.
I'm arguing a rhetorical, general point here. I have no idea how old you are.
> And who is trying to "narrow the parameters of dissent"- I noted that
> dissent ranges from letter writing to direct action. It is the Black Bloc
> types who are attacking the folks who marched nonviolently.
>
> As the saying goes, get the plank out of your own eye.
Sorry, but I don't buy your point that the black blockers are attacking those who marched nonviolently. If you read the recent accounts of Quebec City veterans, you'll notice that the non-black block types are more likely to criticize the bloc than the other way around. We've also had to deal with other activists who did interviews with the media and dissed out tactics and our very existence. There have been numerous media reports that the black bloc is a small fringe group that disrupts peaceful protests. Where do the reporters get this from? Other activists.
<< Chuck0 >>
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INTERNATIONALISM IN PRACTICE
An American soldier in a hospital explained how he was wounded: He said, "I was told that the way to tell a hostile Vietnamese from a friendly Vietnamese was to shout ‘To hell with Ho Chi Minh!’ If he shoots, he’s unfriendly. So I saw this dude and yelled ‘To hell with Ho Chi Minh!’ and he yelled back, ‘To hell with President Johnson!’ We were shaking hands when a truck hit us."
(from 1,001 Ways to Beat the Draft, by Tuli Kupferburg).