Your arguments are obnoxious-- I said nothing of the kind you attribute to me. Of everyone discussing this subject, yours are the least engaged with anything anyone actually says. You make your arguments based on cant without reference to any reality outside your brain.
So again fuck off.
Nathan Newman nathan at newman.org http://www.nathannewman.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brad Mayer" <bradley.mayer at ebay.sun.com> To: <lbo-talk at lists.panix.com> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:46 PM Subject: Re: The nation of jews...
Oh, and why should "why Israel mattered" be relevant to the present issue at hand, which concerns, not someone's familial history, but US intervention in the Middle East?
This is a tired old gambit, Nathan. As I made unmistakably clear to a particular zionist here at work, there nothing much more reprehensible than hiding ones' crimes in the present behind the past Nazi holocaust. Then throwing in one's own family members - I'll reserve comment there. Then getting all chip-on-the-shoulder huffy about it.
That gambit's been done before. That act doesn't work anymore. Try something new.
Here's a piece of stupid reductionism for ya: Your bottom line - indicated in a previous post concerning Israeli immigration - is, "they did it to us, so we can do it to them". The arrogance of this is astounding. And extraordinarily irresponsible when it comes to the fate of the Jewish people. Can anyone really believe for a second that the Jewish people have such a strong position in the world that they could seriously enact such a "policy"? Perhaps if you are a neo-Nazi antisemite - or an American Zionist.
The German and Japanese nations were in a much stronger position in the world than the Jews, and we know what happened to them. Far worse will happen to the Jews, should they continue to heed the advice of Zionists. These latter, imaging that they have Washington in their pocket (the reality is the other way around), think themselves in a _stronger_ position. But they are dead wrong. Zionism means national suicide for the Jewish people. And they talk about _Palestinian_ "kamikazes"? Hirohito would have loved it.
And "stupid"? I've learned that is a compliment, coming from American zionists, who use it quite often these days, from my own personal experience - "stupid and evil", as a matter of fact. Translated it means, "You've drawn blood!". To me it means, "Shove the knife deeper!".
-Brad Mayer
At 08:14 AM 8/2/01 -0400, you wrote:
>What an obnoxious reductionist comment.
>
>How about adding that a good chunk of my family died in death camps, so I
>understand why all this stupid reductionist talk about imperialism and
>Israel just misses the point of why Israel mattered for a lot of folks.
>
>It is folks like Carroll who see everything through the lens of the
>Democratic Party and contort their political arguments on that basis.