Brett and Christopher on eco-optimism

Eric Franz Leher fr102anz at netvigator.com
Sat Aug 11 17:19:16 PDT 2001



> >Doesn't green thinking also oppose suburban sprawl, and the incoherent
> >development of rural areas?
>
> Yes, that was the point that I was making. Green thinking opposes the
> growth of large working class suburbs, and seeks to protect the
> countryside for rural elites.
>
I _was_ going to object strenuously to this particular piece of apparent weirdness (conservationists protecting wilderness on behalf of 'rural elites' - on behalf of _farmers_? On behalf of ranchers and pastoralists?) when I realized that James is from Britain. So that explains that. Tally-ho!

Nonetheless James, I would be interested to see you back up your suspicion that the concept of an eco-system is a 'metaphysical absurdity'. You don't think capitalism - another set of observable relationships - is a metaphysical absurdity. An eco-system is simply a set of relationships between animals and the part of the world they live in. The relationships are observable. So what's metaphysical about it?

I would also like to confirm whether or not there is a major contradiction in your posts recently. On the one hand you seem to accept the idea of limits to growth - for animals:


> ...But species extinction and bio-
> diversity go hand in hand. Species extinction is just as much part of
> the law of natural selection as bio-diversity. One without the other
> would be unworkable (would the world just fill up with more and more
> species?).
>

The world filling up with more and more species? Impossible ...

On the other hand (and I gather this merely from the tenor of your posts), workers will be able to enter a world of forever-increasing material satisfaction once we stop capitalism from stiffing them.

Animals are ultimately subject to growth limits - people ultimately aren't. Is this your opinion? And on what grounds do you hold it?

I understand that you probably object to environmentalism in your own country because of a group of useless and nationally embarrassing wealthy people with silly accents who have appropriated it so they don't get highways near their country homes. What I want you to consider is that ultimately left politics and environmentalism have to be reconciled. Socialism without environmentalism has just as little future as the capitalist system we currently live under.

Eric Leher



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