organization of rev/( was eco-optimism)

[Gordon Fitch]

CB: Democratic centralism is an effort to deal with the unity and
> struggle of the opposites of "all power to all the people as a whole"
> and , yet,the need for leadership and unity especially when the
> struggle takes on a military or paramilitary structure. Actually, the
> first era of trying to build socialism teaches that the bourgeoisie
> are able to force the working class to take up militarized structure
> in order to survive.  The riddle of organizational form for the
> working class' struggle must be solved, but posing the issue as "how
> democratic centralism" has not be exceeded or gotten beyond.
> Vanguardism has not been proven more of failure than non-vanguardism,
> which amounted to almost donothingism,  critcism  from the sidelines.

Ian Murray:
> Well we need to out jujitsu them on "forcing" the military structure;
> we become like them in that very act. There's a big zone between
> do-nothingism and vanguardism that we need to explore and learn how to
> navigate. The sheer amount of weapons floating around in the world
> today presents us with different kinds of challenges on this issue,
> imo.

I don't see an objective barrier to distributed action, just
a lot of conservatism -- a conservatism not based in the
success which might justify it.  Vanguardism is a prominent
example of the quasi-conservative mentality.  Historically,
I think radicals have accomplished more by thinking and acting
radically than by imitating their oppressors.