Yoshie > Al Qaeda & like networks are _indeed_ a threat to
> the regimes in power & whatever left oppositions that exist in the
> countries in which they operate; and they will _not_ "go away in due
> course"; but exactly what degree of threat do they pose, & to whom?
Dennis: To anyone who they view as in their way -- including you, if it comes to that. And how safe would you feel if al-Qaida took control of a nuclear state, given their stated views about the West and unbelievers in general? The struggle ain't over in Pakistan, to be sure; and as dreadful as the Saudi regime is, can you imagine what would happen if a pro-al-Qaida regime took its place? I don't think it's an exaggeration at all. That is what they want. Now, how do Western lefties respond to this without reaching for their Lenin and Marx?
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CB: Trouble is the U.S. lying machine built the whole Cold War arms race with arguments similar to yours regarding the Soviet and communist "threat". There were movies about Cuban and Soviet troops invading the U.S.etc, etc.
I wonder what you were arguing when the U.S. was supplying proto-Al Qaida with armaments against the socialist Afghan government and Soviet troops ? What was your position on the Soviet and communist threat to our peace and safety ? Lenin and Marx would have taught that U.S. imperialism and the terrorist contras they were creating, including bin Laden , were the real aggressors and danger to world peace then. Shall we Marxist-Leninists say we told you so ?
Talk about kneejerk. Anti- Marx and Lenin is a real kneejerk response to this situation, because, Najibullah, having reached for his Lenin and Marx, was fighting Al Qaida when the Americans were building them up.
So, before we form a leftwing of the current U.S. crusade to save us from Al Qaida, it would seem we should be more skeptical than you are of the U.S. militarists' promised path to peace and safety, less they create the next "Al Qaida", like they literally created the first Al Qaida.
I mean how , really , do you respond to that ? Do you deny that Al Qaida is largely the result of the last U.S. "strategy" for our peace and safety in that area. ? Why do you trust the U.S. to get it right this time ?
Yoshie:> Threats from right-wing networks that are not in power should be
> rationally discussed, rather than exaggerated; exaggeration will only
> panic people & make them more inclined to accept the destruction of
> civil rights & liberties than otherwise.
Dennis: Well, they were in power in Afghanistan,
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CB: Yea, they were in power in Afghanistan because the U.S. Evil Empire supplied them with the weapons in order to save us from the last Great Threat to Our Safety (according to the U.S. government) , the Soviet Union. Can we really trust the U.S. government's judgment in protecting us ? The latest result of U.S. policy in that region was the Sept. 11 events. Or do you claim that the Sept. 11 events are unrelated to prior U.S actions in the Middle East and Central Asia ?
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and are struggling for power in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia (among other places). I don't think it's irrational to face facts. Yes, we should resist overstatement and hyperbole, and not allow this theocratic gang to be the excuse Bush uses to clamp down on liberties. But as I said before, this is a complicated argument, and one cannot rely on knee-jerk left rhetoric to explain it all away.
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CB: Here are some kneejerk questions that should occur to everybody . Why was the Pentagon and WTC attacked ? Did it have anything to do with the previous U.S. military attacks in the Middle East and Central Asia or did Al Qaida just decide to attack the U.S. out of the blue because we are not practicing Islam or something like that ? Will the current attacks by the U.S. beget future terrorist attacks against Americans , or will it succeed in killing all the terrorists on earth ? If you want to be really pragmatic and self-protective dare to ask yourself these ,and answer them honestly.