>I don't mind being an infidel. Some of you ultras apparently do.
>And I think it's obvious this wasn't a war on Islam, ObL's claims to >the
contrary. It was about what happened September 11th and >everything else is
a distraction or besides the point. And as much >as I hate Dubya, Cheney,
Rumsfeld, et. al.
>I think they did a good job of destroying Al Queda and the proof
>is in the pudding. There hasn't been a terrorist attack since the >9.11
(knock on wood).
That's a pretty short time scale even for current events. I'll have to save this post for a while as I count my chickens and wait for my big serving of Christmas pudding from Marksnsparks (the mails are slow this year). I guess you mean the only terrorism is that conducted by groups against the US or OECD country or something. And I think it's still arguable whether or not OBL was integral to the plot or just a willing fall guy in some sort of endgame. Certainly no one has convinced me that these attacks were launched directly from Afghanistan, and what transpired in W. Europe, the US, Egypt and Saudi Arabia prior to 9-11 cuts far closer to the chase.
Some of us think that the war on Afghanistan writ larger as the war on terrorism is the distraction (since Bush 2 was going after OBL with or without 9-11--while promoting anti-missile defense and the need for defense against weapons of mass destruction). But the outcomes, such as an imperial US presidency surpassing Reagan's, are hardly besides the point.
I'm not sure who you are addressing, but this list, as I know from experience, likes points made to others' points. The use of straw men like anonymous 'ultras' who supposedly agree with Ali or OBL doesn't help much.
Most of the people on this list, as much as they disagree and contend and dissent, haven't seemed to argue that this is largely a war against Islam. It certainly is a war--and a pseudo-debate--largely ignorant of Islam. And no doubt OBL may win some debate points by saying it is a war against Islam.
Still, the reason why I argue against the whole 'clerical fascism chain reaction' argument, since the sort of Islam the Taliban represent is unappealing to most and without some sort of Islamic constitution like in Iran (whose Shia brand of Islam also gives greater authority to clerics as well) a total deadend for even one society let alone something to export. And it certainly isn't the first or last form of extremism imposed at gunpoint.
BTW, my favorite ultra is Ultraman!
Charles Jannuzi