Re marxism on wgn-fm

[Gordon Fitch]

Yoshie Furuhashi quotes:
> ...Adam Smith, considered the apostle of the "free market,"
> understood very well how capitalism could not survive a truly free
> market, if government was not big enough to protect it.  He wrote. in
> the middle of the eighteenth century: "Laws and governments may be
> considered in this and indeed in every case, a combination of the
> rich to oppress the poor, and preserve to themselves the inequality
> of the goods, which would otherwise be soon destroyed by the attacks
> of the poor, who if not hindered by the government would soon reduce
> the others to an equality with themselves by open violence."...
> <http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/BigGovernWhom_Zinn.html>
> *****
>
> It seems to me that the venerable political economist during the
> glorious days of the Scottish Enlightenment summed up the nature of
> capitalism very well above.  Capitalism (a mode of production)
> dictates a form of rule ("a combination of the rich to oppress the
> poor").

George Thomas:
>
| Apparently not, if the "...this and indeed in every case..."
| segment is also taken into consideration.  Your post smacks
| of capitalism scapegoating, which I objected to earlier.
| Certainly capitalism has problems.  The disparity in wages.
| Catering to moneyed interests, at expense of the whole of the
| people.  I could go on, but do these problems not exist
| elsewhere?  If the problems with capitalism are universal,
| then they are at most only a matter of degree, they are
| correctable to a similar degree.  But what unique negative
| quality does capitalism possess, that is not embodied by other
| forms of production?  ....

Capitalism requires that some have much, and others little
or nothing, so that the capitalist political and economic
role can be enacted; that is, capitalists require a working
class.  But assuming human beings are at least potentially
willful, autonomous, and self-interested, then if two or
more of them are in contact, and one has so much more
property than the other that the former has power over the
latter, the latter will naturally try to seize the goods of
the former; because it is contrary to simple reason to
expect any willful, rational being to accept subordination,
which may amount to slavery or death.  Class can be
maintained only by means of class war.  Hence, capitalists
must construct strong, centralized states (and now, indeed,
metastates) to protect their interests -- their political
status and the property it depends on.  And this is what
we see in history.

Since we observe production carried out by parterships between
equals, cooperatives, communes and the like -- socialist
arrangements -- we know that domination and subordination are
not intrinsically necessary to production.

There is a theory that capitalism can be ameliorated through
social democracy or the Welfare State.  But this does not
appear to be the case in practice.  The modifications are
applied only during times of crisis, and are withdrawn when
the ruling class feels sure of its position, exactly as
common sense tells us they would be.