> What do you want, Cheka
> officers liquidating them? They are as much a product of the antithesis to
> capitalism as other parts of the anti-capitalist movement?
> Where do you people live?"
>
Christopher
Michael Pugliese wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "info" <info at j12.org>
> To: <aut-op-sy at lists.village.virginia.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 4:01 AM
> Subject: RE: AUT: Re: Black Bloc attacks Cobas, Rete Lilliput?
>
> "Franco wrote:
> i personally thing they should be isolated
> in any expression of the anti-capitalist movement. I hope I'll be able to
> send a description of yesterday's battle from my perspective tomorrow.
>
> My response:
> I am amazed by the stuff I am reading here. What do you want, Cheka
> officers liquidating them? They are as much a product of the antithesis to
> capitalism as other parts of the anti-capitalist movement?
> Where do you people live?"
>
> Franco wrote:
> Listen, man, no one is talking of liquidating anyone here, and if you want
> to criticise me you are appreciated to do it on what I have actually argued
>
> My response:
> Well what do you mean by isolation in any expression of the anti-capitalist
> movement? Does this not mean identifying such people throwing them out of
> meetings, social centres, demonstrations. And should an anti-capitalist
> movement succeed denying them access to the wonderful new society so
> created???
>
> Franco wrote:
> (by the way, in the past two days I have lived in Genoa, which can't be
> said
> of you, judging from your level of theoretical abstraction).
>
> I am sure the fact that you have 'lived' in Genoa for the past two days is
> no excuse for your patronising attitudes.
>
> The police shot a man in London on Monday. At a protest in Brixton there
> was a confrontation with the police and shops were looted. I don't think
> cars were set on fire this time. Certainly this happened in 1981 and 1985
> and also during the anti-poll tax rising of 1991.
>
> Franco wrote:
> As for what to do with these guys of the BBs, what I wrote is based on the
> *practice* I saw
> there: when they materialised they've been kicked out of the demo. Period.
> The fact that they are 'produced by the contradictions of capitalism' (and,
> BTW, how many anti-global capitalism from the far right are produced in the
> same way as well? Do we 'understand' them also?) is quite little to justify
> their presence in contexts where they fuck up actions, collude with the
> police, jeopardise the lives of comrades on the ground.
>
> My response:
> Why do you use such juridical words as 'justify'? After Seattle, Prague and
> Gothenburg anyone with any political nous could work out that they would be
> there 'justified' or not. Therefore it is necessary to work out how to deal
> with them and their politics. (BTW it is equally necessary to understand
> the far right, particularly those sections who are currently trying to
> nussle up to the anarchists).
>
> Franco wrote:
> Really, REALLY, two days ago Genoa's streets were not the best place to
> chat on what the
> antitheses of capitalism produce.
>
> My response:
> The separation of action from theory which permeates your posting is a
> recipe for an uncookable cake.
>
> As regards your later posting I feel this is much better considered -
> although I feel that the term 'demential' more appropriate than fascist.
> Clearly the links between anarchism and fascism have been long established
> and the shenangins of the Black Block fit in with a Bakuninist agenda - a
> shadowy unidentifiable group constituting itself as the invisible pilot in
> the eye of the storm. Combining a refusal to have any dealings with the
> press, this tendency revels in their ability to grab the headlines with
> pictures of torched cars and smashed windows. Then they applaud themselves
> as their mythical enemies in the press glorify/vilify the anarchists as the
> most important tendency in the protests. i.e. they use the very media they
> profess to despise to promote the shallowest depiction of themselves into
> the social imagination.
>
> As for cop infiltration, this is a standard line which is produced time and
> time again. Where is the evidence? Without some real evidence why waste
> time on this discussion. It is the Black Block's double standards which are
> troubling here: now they constitute a collectivity, now they deny it
> disavowing actions they do not like as the work of different individuals.
> Just as they use other demonstrators to hide behind, their masks may or may
> not provide something for the others to hide behind. The excuse that
> individuals want to hide their identities from the authorities when engaged
> in confrontation displays their lack of a 'theoretical abstraction' which
> goes beyond having a punch up with the police.
>
> In Prague there were three columns marching on the meeting, with the Blue
> including the Black Block. This at least had the merit of allowing the
> Black Block to take responsibility for its own actions (which showed not
> least their failure to grasp even the rudiments of street fighting). Your
> proposal of isolation will only serve to perpetuate their political
> infantilism by institutionalising them as outcasts.
>
> Fabian
>
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