Anti-Zionism Is Racism

[Forstater, Mathew]

but i assume you have a place to live and are not being chased out?
although i admit under my rule 'my place' should be given to the
American Indians, along with parts to African Americans and also Mexico
(where they to work some stuff, too..). But I don't think I could argue
that much with a proposal that gave big chunks of the U.S. to these
displaced/Enslaved/genocided, with the option of leaving as is and being
recognized as full participants in democratic rule. Obviously I'm not
really thinking all this through very carefully, but still, the question
remains:

What in Yahweh's name do the sins of the Germans have to do with
displacing/chasing/genociding the Palestinians? (irony unintended?)

I was arguing for recognition of the historical specificity of "the Rest
of the World" (Chinweizu) that was colonized by European Capitalist
Imperialism. Of course I believe that Jews should have full citizenship
and democratic rights in all the countries in which they live,  and not
be subject to discrimination, as every other group. The case of
Israel/Palestine is a case of Europeans who happened to be Jews getting
their own colony in a "non-aligned" non-European area, approved of by
other Europeans based on the persecution of Jews in Europe.  It was a
mistake, a mistake, a mistake, I believe. Ok, I know that now history
has resulted in Jews living in Palestine. And with the voices of many
Palestinians, I ask, why not be participants in a secular democratic
state, with full rights of return for Palestinians in exile, and some
allowances for Jewish immigration under conditions of persecution? Or,
two states, fine, but stop bulldozing Palestinian homes and villages,
stop continued settler expansion and agression, stop killing Palestinian
children, stop settlerizing East Jerusalem, stop legal (and other)
discrimination against non-Jews.

"Can't we just all get along?"
Rodney King

-----Original Message-----
From: Gordon Fitch [mailto:gcf at panix.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 8:04 PM
To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com
Subject: Re: Anti-Zionism Is Racism

Forstater, Mathew:
> >    ... And to my mind, Ashkenazi Jews had the same 'right' to
> Palestine
> > that the Boer had to South Africa--none. 
> > ...

Gordon:
> In general, what right does a person have to be anywhere?

Forstater, Mathew:
> a farmer or pastoralist whose family has tilled the soil or herded
> livestock for generations as a basic mode of subsistence has a right
to
> continue that way of life in the face of an invasion by outsiders
> carrying bibles and/or guns. no?

I don't know.  I don't think too many of us would have a
right to be anywhere under that sort of rule.  Very, very
few of _my_ ancestors have tilled any soil in a serious way
going back _quite_ a few generations.

The primary reason most of the Ashkenazis wound up in
Palestine was that some Germans didn't think they had any
right to be in Germany -- a certain lack of soil-tilling was
probably mentioned there as well.  Of course they learned
their lesson and made the desert bloom, etc.

Maybe I should buy a hoe or something.