Alec Ramsdell wrote:
>
>
> The second speaker was Hungarian with no kind words
> for America. The gist of what he said left one, or at
> least left me, puzzled, let's say, as to what there is
> about America that one would want to stake a political
> project in American national identity.
>
This is an exceedingly tough question (or at least some versions of it are). My tendency (though I think probably it isn't a question that can be resolved in abstraction from discussion within an active movement) is more and more to conclude that indeed "American national identity" cannot be given a positive content. A song by Aunt Molly Jackson (written before the CP adopted its Popular Front line) expresses a view that should be seriously considered:
The bosses ride on a big white horse
While we walk in the mud.
Their flag's the old red, white and blue
But ours is dipped in blood.
But as you clearly recognize in your post, most of those sympathetic or at this time potentially sympathetic to the left still pretty vigorously cling to their "Americanism" -- they just want to change what that means. So (the CP change of line probably in part echoed this) Aunt Molly's position here can potentially cut one off from a hearing.
Is "identity" the term we want here -- the word was a label (identity politics) for a particular approach to politics a few years ago, and as several threads on this list have indicated many equate _any_ defence of (for example) an independent black politics with "identity politics." But I think that a side issue here.
I am attaching a post that appeared on the sixties=l list. It was a lengthy thread and this post gives just a taste of it, but it shows how lively the dehate can be.
Carrol
=============
Subject: Re: [sixties-l] Re: sixties-l-Re Vietnam Memorial
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 19:46:31 -0700
From: Joe McDonald <joe at countryjoe.com>
Reply-To: sixties-l at lists.village.virginia.edu
Organization: Acme Music
To: sixties-l at lists.village.virginia.edu
References: 1 , 2
well golly Jeffrey Blankfort you sure got a slow fuse. i never said i "proudly defend"ed anything. Remember i said IT DON'T MEAN SHIT!
But i reacted instinctually not rationally with not wanting to see a flag burned out or respect for those who died for or as native american warriors say "behind" the flag.
It seems not only David Horowitiz but you too are an expert on my momma and what she believed. i don't think so. i know all of what yer talking about since i was 10 years old.
Some good old boys tolerate me but you are mixing things up a bit. "honor the warrior not the war" puts me right in with the Vietnam Veterans Against the War group, you betcha! Honor the flag,well i donno about that. i did tie a yellow ribbon on the tree in front of my house when my nephew went off with the airborne to the Persian Gulf and kept it there until, thank god, he came back home. But we dont hang flags or burn flags at my house.
As far as trying to be "holy" i got nothing to prove and "holy" is a strange word to use to someone who is not religious at all. Remember i was raised by Communist Atheists and unlike Mr Hororwitz have yet to "denounce" my parents and their beliefs.
Things are often not what they seem. i just happen to believe in "respect" and civility how bout you?
As far as holes are concerned we are all in the same hole, make a lttle room eh, its crowded in here.
cheers, country joe mcdonald
Jeffrey Blankfort wrote:
> I preface my response to Joe McDonald's defense of the
> US flag and flags, in general, because it is the US flag that he so
> proudly defends from the fire of legitimate protest that symbolizes the
> genocidal sanctions that have been carried out under a UN Security
> Council that is virtually in the pocket of whatever administration is in
> place in Washington.
>
> Frankly, Joe, I think you have to take some time out and study the same
> history that informed and inspired your mother
>
> Yeah, honor the warrior and honor the flag. That puts you right there
> with "the god old boys."
>
> When you tried to be the holiest of the holiest, Joe, you end up digging
> yourself into a hole.
>
> Jeff Blankfort
-- "Ira Furor Brevis Est " - Anger is a brief madness
country joe Home Pg <http://www.countryjoe.com> country joe's tribute to Florence Nightingale <http://www.countryjoe.com/nightingale> Berkeley Vietnam Veterans Memorial <http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/Links/Comm/vvm> Rag Baby Online Magazine <http://www.ragbaby.com/magazine>