ritalin

[kelley]

At 11:49 AM 6/6/01 -0400, Christopher Rhoades Dÿkema wrote:
>This is an example of what goes into the need, in contemporary American
>society, for the stronger ego than in other times and places:
>
>Carrol Cox wrote:
>
> >
> >  'Laws' that apply to a more public
> > and/or collective realm become transformed in the nuclear family
> > (including one-parent families). And incidentally there is also a
> > difference between "slaps" (particularly the public, institutionalized
> > slaps you describe but also even slaps [say in anger] and formal
> > corporal punishment, more or less in cold blood -- on principle rather
> > than on impulse.
>
>This is the distinction between shame and guilt, or as Piers put it, 
>between socially mediated id control in which the person responds to 
>correction by the collective voice of the community (usually a small, more 
>or less pre-modern one), and the more modern type of socially mediated id 
>control in which the person responds to the personality of the 
>internalized parent. Or,
>to paraphrase Piers further, this is the distinction between the person
>submitting to the ego ideal and the person submitting to the superego --
>shame as opposed to guilt. The public slap is a token of putting the person
>to shame for a transgression. The " slaps [say in anger] and formal corporal
>punishment, more or less in cold blood," (Carrol is quite wonderfully
>eloquent here.), are practically calculated to generate a harsh, punishing,
>authoritarian superego.

whew! and all this time ken's been suggesting that i make up stuff about 
shame v. guilt, ego ideal and superego.  somewhere i've heard it referred 
to as "reintegrative shaming".  shame works to reintegrate good/bad, 
self/other.

i found eli sagan's _Freud, Women and Morality_ quite interesting here -- 
he carefully sifts thru the archives to show where Freud seemed to slip up 
when thinking about the process we refer to as "ego ideal" and the process 
we refer to as "superego"

kelley