>>> cbcox at ilstu.edu 06/07/01 02:29PM >>>
My post was focused on Doug's argument (or implied argument), not yours. But as to your original post, my primary concern is marginal but not unimportant: Expressions of excessive optimism tend to be counter-productive. I have in fact over the years had some agitational success using the 'pessimistic' approach suggested in my post.
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CB: Lets be more concrete. Doug implied that the nationalist aspect of the struggle of the ANC is now demonstrated to be an example of weakness , supporting the Hardt-Negri thesis against organizing based on nation-states. I responded essentially, that the ANC experience is support for the opposite proposition.
On the marginal point,concretely, the slogan was not at all "excessively optimistic" but accurately optimistic, since apartheid was defeated. The South African case we were discussing would not be a good basis for making a generalization that optimistic slogans tend to be counter-productive, rather the contrary.
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TINA -- Meaning there is no alternative to revolution, however hard and even unlikely that road may be.
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CB: I would add to "TINA to revolution" , "AND WE CAN WIN". How's that for compromise ? Your approach might be termed excessively pessimistic.
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My objection to both Max and Doug (not that I'm equating their positions) is that they are naively optimistic about the potential within capitalism, not that they are pessimistic about socialism. Given the naivete of their pollyannish view of that potential, their pessimism re revolution is simply irrelevant.
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CB: Yes, I hadn't thought of it that way.