> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-lbo-talk at lists.panix.com
> [mailto:owner-lbo-talk at lists.panix.com]On Behalf Of Charles Brown
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 5:34 PM
> To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com
> Subject: Re: Defining Fascism
>
> cberlet at igc.org 06/27/01 04:28PM >>>
>
>
> <SNIP>
>
> So, far the Dimitrov's and the
> > Comintern's arguments are more persuasive to me than the one
> > you cite below.
>
> OK,
>
> ))))))))
>
> CharlesB: What do you mean " ok "? I gave readings and
> actions on fascism post-Comintern report. Admit you were wrong
>
> (((((
>
No thanks, all you did was post a list of people who repeated (avoiding the word "parrot" here) the claims of Dimitrov. Not new data or new ideas, just a broken record.
>
> what sectors of big business and finance captial supported the NSDAP
> during the social movement phase led ideologically by the Strasser
> brothers?
>
> ((((((((
>
> CharlesB: I suppose you think this is a trick question
No, actually it was a question I wanted you to answer. You chose not to. OK.
> On the demogogic "socialism" of the Nazis, like its
> "left-wing" Strasser brothers , perhaps you didn't read
> Dimitrov carefully enough:
>
> "What is the source of the influence of fascism over the
> masses? Fascism is able to attract the masses because it
> demagogically appeals to their most urgent needs and demands.
> Fascism not only inflames prejudices that are deeply
> ingrained in the masses, but also plays on the better
> sentiments of the masses, on their sense of justice and
> sometimes even on their revolutionary traditions. Why do the
> German fascists, those lackeys of the bourgeoisie and mortal
> enemies of socialism, represent themselves to the masses as
> "Socialists," and depict their accession to power as a
> "revolution"? Because they try to exploit the faith in
> revolution and the urge towards socialism that lives in the
> hearts of the mass of working people in Germany."
> How's that for a "slogan" ?
Great slogan, awful rhetorical writing, false data.
It turns out that while there was some working class support for the NSDAP, and some support in all socioeconomic sectors, the great bulk of support for the Nazis came from the middle class Burgher parties.
> More on Strasser brothers
>
> Joseph Goebbels
> ... the Nationalsozialistischen Briefe (NS Letters) and other
> publications of the Strasser
> brothers, sharing their proletarian anti-capitalist outlook
> and call for ...
> www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/goebbels.html - 15k -
> Cached - Similar pages
>
>
> Reading List: Radical Right in Post-War Britain
> ... Baker, D., 'AK Chesterton, the Strasser Brothers and the
> Politics of
> the National Front', Patterns of Prejudice, 1985, 19, pp.
> 255-258. ...
> www.kingston.ac.uk/~se_s411/radright/bib979.htm - 3k - Cached
> - Similar pages
>
>
> Simon Wiesenthal Center Multimedia Learning Center Online - ...
> ... dsr dsb, The Strasser brothers headed the left wing of
> the Nazi Party. They believed
> that Nazism should destroy capitalism and nationalize the
> economy. While ...
> motlc.wiesenthal.com/pages/t055/t05597.html - 6k - Cached -
> Similar pages
>
>
> Silent Night
> ... The next day his friend, François-Xavier Gruber, composed
> the music. The carol
> was first sung by the Strasser brothers, four youngsters from
> the Tyrol.
> www.virtualmuseum.ca/Exhibitions/Noel/angl/chan-sn.htm - 2k -
> Cached - Similar pages
>
>
> PSN jan96 discussion:: Re: Weimar voting
> ... particularly well with the socialist element in the form
> of the Strasser brothers,
> and with what happened to them. See also 'The Mass Psychology
> of Fascism' by ...
> csf.colorado.edu/mail/psn/jan96/0050.html - 3k - Cached -
> Similar pages
>
>
> PEACE: aug98 : Re: NO SUBSTITUTE FOR CLASS ANALYSIS
> ... research on the Nazis. Turns out that there > was a group
> of Nazis, led by the Strasser
> brothers and including > Josef Goebbels, who considered
> themselves "anti ...
> csf.colorado.edu/forums/peace/aug98/0010.html - 18k - Cached
> - Similar pages
> [ More results from csf.colorado.edu ]
>
>
> Fraction Hexagone
> ... or the Left. Our principal influences,however, are Sorel,
> Blanqui, Jünger, the Strasser
> brothers,C.Manson,Turner, Unabomber, Che Guevara and
> Commander Marcos. ...
> www.geocities.com/Broadway/Alley/5449/fichier2.htm - 10k -
> Cached - Similar pages
>
>
> SPLC: Intelligence Report -- Winter 2000
> ... The ideas of Otto and Gregor Strasser, brothers who
> pushed a more "socialist" version
> of Hitler's National Socialism, are prominently featured
> here. (Black ...
> www.splcenter.org/intelligenceproject/ip-4m4.html - 16k -
> Cached - Similar pages
>
>
> Untitled
> ... movement. Thus in Germany, national-bolshevism designated
> the movement led by the
> Strasser brothers, and represented the left wing of the NSDAP
> (Nazi Party). ...
> www.spunk.org/texts/groups/faf/sp000261.txt - 15k - Cached -
> Similar pages
>
>
> Untitled
> ... Refereed Journal Articles. 'AK Chesterton, the Strasser
> Brothers and the Politics
> of the National Front.' Patterns of Prejudice 19:3, 1985.
> 'The Appeal of ...
> www.ntu.ac.
>
Thanks so much for demonstrating that you know how to surf the web and cut and paste text. I am delighted for you. Alas, there is no content or debate. Is it your contention that Otto and Gregor were not actually socialists at one point? Is it your contention that Mussolini was not actually a socialist at one point?
>
> <SNIP>
>
> > Literally, a few days before the Oklahoma City bombing, I had
> > written a memo to the Detroit NAACP on the need for us to up
> > our diligence against militia terrorism ( that coincidence
> > even scared me).
>
> What militia terrorism?
>
> ((((((((
>
> CharlesB: The bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building
>
> ((((((
>
The militia did not bomb the federal building. It's like confusin socialists with communists. Egad! You would never do that on the left, why do you think it is OK to do it on the right?
>
> There have been no acts of militia terrorism,
> and only a handful of arrests for what amounts largely to barroom
> bravado.
>
> The OKC bombing was carried out by a neonazi. He was trying to punish
> the government and recruit out of the militia movement. Most of the
> people in the militia movement were not fascists much less neonazis.
>
> ((((((((((
>
> CharlesB: Oh most weren't , but some were ?
>
> ((((((((
>
Actually...yes.
>
>
> Demonizing the (wretched) militia movement as fascist
> encouraged passage
> of the 1996 legislation that eroded civil liberties for all of us, but
> esecially Arabs, Arab-Americans, and Muslims, who have been
> hit by that
> law the hardest. Remember the Brown Scare? It provided the legal basis
> for what later became the Red Scare. The CP supported legislation
> against "fascists" that was later used against communists and a whole
> range of liberals and progressives. So much for the historical success
> of your theoretical base. Frankly, Trotsky (God forgive me...) was
> closer to an accurate analysis of fascism than the Comintern.
>
> ((((((((((
>
> CharlesB: What are they your pet little nice militias ? Lie
> down with dogs and you catch flees.
Now Charles, I am not a fan of the militias and you know it. Get a grip.
> Remember Father Coghlin and the 1943 white race riot in
> Detroit ? Remember , the KKK and all those lynchings of Black
> people. ? Remember the KKK marching in D.C. in the 20's ?
> Remember Henry Ford with a picture of Hitler on his office wall ?
>
> ((((((((((
>
The KKK in the 1920's was not fascist. It certainly was racist and antisemitic. It was also largely anti-Catholic. Coughlin inverted this and became a Catholic right-wing populist who drifted into fascism. Actually, Hitler and his pals learned some of their antisemitism from Fo rd, not the other way around.
> Repeating a 70-year-old slogan over and over again is not debate.
> Dimitrov want a cracker?
>
> ((((((((
>
> CB: Can't you think up any other insults ? Perhaps you are
> having trouble noticing all the other things I said in
> response to what you said, and are fixated on the first line
> or something. but Dimitrov and I said quite a bit more than
> what you call a slogan, which was a definition as was being
> discussed on the thread.
Actually, I am quit adept at thinking up insults. I pride myself on it. But what would be the point?
>
> :-)
>
> -Chip
>
> Note change in heading to reflect content
>
> ((((((((((
>
> CharlesB: Note five to ten paragraphs more of discussion
> beyond and in elaboration of initial definition given. That's
> "definition" as in "defining fascism".
Sorry, I can't find the discussion you claim has happened. Where is it?
-Chip