paying off ex-slaves: patriotism as a double edged sword

[Forstater, Mathew]

I think what Charles is pointing to is the 'strategic' use of arguments that
one's audience might find persuasive, even if one arguing it doesn't necessarily
accept those basic premises. There must be a technical name for it in rhetorical
studies, like "showing your opponent is a hypocrite." In one of my interviews on
reps. I said something like "Those who hold property rights dear must find cause
for concern when a most fundamental property right--the property in one's own
labor--is violated." mat

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Brown [mailto:CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us]
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:43 AM
To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com
Subject: paying off ex-slaves: patriotism as a double edged sword


>>> ForstaterM at umkc.edu 03/26/01 11:27AM >>>
in my recent debates around kc on the issue, i've formulated a few responses to
the 'usual' myths/arguments against reps.  when someone says that 'it happened a
long time ago...' my basic response is: the issue is not the amount of time that
has passed, but rather, first, whether or not an injustice was committed (are
there time limits to addressing injustices?) and, second, are there present
effects of the past injustice?

(((((((((

CB: On long term historical cause, I sometimes try to use patriotism and
patriotic sentiment but with an opposite implication than most patriots,
flagwavers I mean , draw. In other words, patriotic Americans have no problem
identifying personally with all the good stuff they think happened in U.S.
history.  Fighting for and worshipping the flag , and "freedom" even, is rooted
in a notion that causes and links to a long time ago are alive and well.  I mean
how do Americans and America rationalize their rights to the land they stand on
except by tracing that "title" through events long ago in history.

Well, if history's causes are alive and well for what you like in them, they are
also alive and well for what you don't like in them. Just as rights to land and
property here are rooted in history, debts and obligations from wealth
transactions from history have  present day substance.

Anyone who feels a personal patriotic connection to America's history for
freedom, with its consequent privileges of citizenship is logically bound to
accept a connection to America's history of unfreedom, with its consequent
obligations of citizenship. Patriotism is a doubleedged sword, and we should use
the rarely used edge in this debate.