Expression of racist and fascist opinion is not freedom. It is repression.
>>> jkschw at hotmail.com 03/30/01 10:53AM >>>
I was of course making a legal point about the law in the US. But this is a
law I support. So yes, contrary to Charles, but with, I think, Marx, I think
that in this respect France is less free than the U.S. In a perfectly
obvious sense, that is true: people are free to express opinions here that
would subject them to criminal prosecution and maybe civil liability in
France.
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CB: But the expression of racist and fascistic opinions itself contributes to the unfreedom of the oppressed racial groups and the working class. So, the net result for society as a whole is less freedom in the U.S. The fact that expresser of racist and fascist opinion is unfettered is not the same as saying that the condition of being allowed to express it is a freedom. It is a license or destructive wildness. The notion that every ability of the individual to act out side of social control is more freedom is false , bourgeois individualist doctrine. Many individual anti-social acts do not constitute freedom , but repression. It is not true that every manner in which an individual is able to do whatever they want results in more freedom. This is a misnomer.
This is the blind spot of free speech absolutist or supremcists , like Justin. Freedom of speech is not a higher freedom than freedom from racism, freedom from fascism.
The political value of freedom from racism and fascism is as high as freedom of speech.
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Now, you might argue, as Charles does, that less freedom is a good thing, if the freedom is used for ill,
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CB: Wrong. I argue that the expression of racist opinion itself creates a social and political state of less freedom.
The freedom of racist opinions is license, not freedom.
"Freedom" to express racist and fascist opinion is a freedom like "free trade". In other words, it is an oppression disguised as a freedom ((((((((
But it is best to be clear about what one is defending--in your case, and in Charles's, less freedom.
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CB; Wrong . My jurisprudence produces more freedom , and your approach produces less freedom in society. The licentious and wild expression of racist and fascist opinion is a greater oppression and lessening of freedom in the society in which it is expressed than is the suppression of such racist and fascist opinion. France is more free than the U.S. in this aspect specifically, contra your claims.
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Less freedom does not mean no freedom, it should not be necessary to say: no one would confuse contemporary France with Stalinist Russia. And it does not follow from France being less free in this respect that it is less free overall.
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CB: The U.S. is less free than France in this aspect today. You don't have the correct overall calculus of freedom. You underestimate the impact on the total unfreedom of the U.S. by the expression of racist and fascist/Confederate opinion, its connection to racist and fascist action in the U.S. You error in giving greater weight to freedom of speech than freedom from racism in deterimining the total freedom quotient.
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But it is less free in this respect, and defendfers of laws that outlaw speech they find obnoxious are deceiving themselves if they think otherwise.