----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrol Cox" <cbcox at ilstu.edu>
>
> I can't speak for Ian, but I am not implying but affirming that the
> phrase "distorted values" is incoherent, meaningless. That phrase
> implies some sort of Platonic form existing outside of space and
time,
> which is "truly imitated" by some and "badly imitated" by others.
But
> values simply do not exist, and never have. What exist are social
> relations within which acceptable modes of behavior endlessly
created
> and recreated. What in the world, in the abstract, could "Loyalty to
> other people" mean? To begin with loyalty was strictly a feudal
> relationship. Would you want that "value" _not_ to be distorted? One
of
> the barriers to decency in this world is that "loyalty" as an
> abstraction, carrying its older meanigns, has NOT been utterly
> destroyed. It is loyalty that was the political force which gave the
> U.S. government room for its genocidal policies in Vietnam. "My
country,
> right or wrong." To the extent that loyalty can appear a "value" we
are
> still far from democracy. Aside from providing entertainment for
retired
> assistant professors of literature, I would presume that a major
purpose
> of this list is to contribute to the distortion of loyalty into
> comradeship.
>
> Carrol
============
But what is decency, except a value?
Where the hell is Nietzsche!?
Ian