From: "Seth Ackerman" <sackerman at FAIR.org>
> .
> Am I advocating for the death penalty? Well, I'm against the death
penalty.
> But if the people who planned the Sept 11 attacks were executed, I
wouldn't
> be holding any vigils. I have a lot of cousins who serve in the
Israeli
> army, some who get sent to the territories. I would be distraught if
they
> died. But I can't deny the Palestinians' right to shoot at soldiers
> occupying their land and tearing down their houses.
>
> If this attitude towards the concept of "justice" is a little
anguished and
> uncomposed, then maybe that can be taken as a statement of my
general
> feeling about this strange war. Maybe the peace movement or the left
need to
> add a little anguish to their "no-war" chants.
============ Would rather the peace movement or the left contest the ludicrousness of calling what is happening a war, precisely to challenge the drivel flowing from the US State. To the extent 9-11 was committed by non-state actors it should be regarded as a criminal act. Otherwise the term war can mean anything and thus nothing. This is every bit as problematic as the State's monopoly on violence and we cannot afford to let that monopoly extend to a monopoly on definitions. I'm sure there are many on this list -or who know somebody- the two-party duopoly/State would simply love to be able to label terrorist in the "same" way the two-party duopoly/State has called Palestinians terrorists until Saudi Arabia started asking the US to reconsider it's position on the Israeli/Palestinian issue [see below]
> .
> We can't know with *certainty.* But we also can't be paralyzed into
a stance
> so agnostic about justice as to leave Donald Rumsfeld as the only
voice
> people wanting "justice" can listen to. That's my main concern.
Beyond that,
> I'm happy to think deeper about what needs to be done.
>
> Seth
==========
I'm not advocating paralysis, I'm advocating that those who oppose the
current US response to this crime cease to go along with the State's
framing of the issue in terms of war and justice; those terms are
mutually exclusive and we should get the state to back down on the use
of those terms the same way they backed down on "infinite justice."
Indeed, even when we consider 9-11 as a crime we don't know what justice would consist of and we need to have the courage to share that idea with our fellow citizens precisely in order to advance those ideas that the left [such as it is] has advocated under the concept of justice and what would constitute a sane foreign policy. We need to speak and act so as to prevent the emergence of "the minaret curtain" rhetoric from rearing it's ugly head in the weeks, months and years ahead. Talk of the "war on terrorism" will only feed that rhetoric. Hell, even Samuel Huntington is backing down from the quasi-eschatological drivel he parlayed into "The Clash of Civilizations." How to go beyond that arrogance which has partly fed "our" Mid-East policies is an opportunity for us only to the extent, as you say, we carry that *anguish* and it's complement - compassion for the survivors - with us in a way that keeps the neo-Hobbesian Right tongue tied.
Ian
[Financial Times] Saudi Arabia warned US over policy on Israel By Roula Khalaf in Riyadh Published: October 9 2001 21:41 | Last Updated: October 9 2001 23:50
Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia told Washington ten days before the September 11 terror attacks that US policy towards the Arab-Israeli conflict had become untenable.
According to diplomatic sources in Riyadh, the prince's letter to President George W. Bush prompted US reassurances that apparently led to US backing for the establishment of a Palestinian state.
The Riyadh sources said the letter was part of a dialogue started in the June meeting in Paris between Crown Prince Abdullah and Colin Powell, US secretary of state.
The letter shows the world's largest oil exporter trying to influence US policy on the Middle East conflict at a time when Arab public opinion and governments had become increasingly disillusioned by US backing for Israel.
This suggests that President Bush's statement last week supporting the idea of a Palestinian state was not directly tied to US efforts to bring Arab nations into the coalition against terrorism.
The Saudi message is believed to have indicated that US bias towards Israel was making it impossible for the Saudi leadership to follow policies that were in both countries' interests. President Bush is said to have written back to reassure the crown prince that the message had found a listening ear.
The crown prince's office on Tuesday would not comment on the letter. But in a statement last week, the Saudi leader praised Mr Bush's statement on a Palestinian state, saying the kingdom appreciated the move.
US officials confirmed that an "exchange of letters" had taken place shortly before the September 11 attacks but did not comment on the details. A diplomatic source in Riyadh familiar with the Saudi correspondence said it was "a frank exchange, but a letter from a friend".
Ali Abdallah Saleh, the Yemeni president, told his parliament on Saturday that the US had informed Saudi Arabia before last month's attacks "that it would do what was necessary for the creation of an independent Palestinian state and that there would later be discussions about the fate of Jerusalem".
Saudi Arabia likes to undertake its diplomacy quietly and not put the US under public pressure. But this leaves it open to criticism by Arab commentators that it is not doing enough to back the Palestinians in their one-year uprising against Israeli occupation - a charge that has been exploited by Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect in last month's terrorist attacks in New York and Washington. The US-Saudi dialogue has gained added urgency after the attacks since maintaining Arab support for the coalition against terrorism would be facilitated by US moves on the peace process.
Saudi Arabia in recent weeks has backed the US campaign but stressed i ts concern about the fate of Afghan civilians and its opposition to extending the US war to Arab countries.
Since the launch of air strikes against Afghanistan, the kingdom has not issued a public comment. But in a cabinet meeting on Monday, King Fahd called for "practical steps" to end the Arab-Israeli conflict and restore peace in the region.