>
> What was the desired result that didn't materialize? There's no question
> that crime rates are down sharply in the poorest (i.e., brownest and
> blackest) neighborhoods of NYC. I spent a lot of time in Bed-Stuy in
> 2000, because my beloved was living there, and there was virtually no
> visible crime. Five or 10 years ago, there were shootings all the time.
> This peace has come at a high price - repression and mass incarceration
> - but policing did have its desired effect.
>
dont you mean some of the desired effect(*) (since you add that the residents werent happy with the repression)? in that case, was what was won worth what was lost? perhaps, but is this duality the only way to approach this question? what if the residents, including the fellows involved in the shootings, had each been handed a million dollars? could that have ended the shooting and brought about the desired effect? surely you jest, you might respond to me. then your criteria for preferring the police approach is a pragmatic one? that it is the best of all feasible approaches?
and also, has the causal claim (policing -> crime reduction) been sufficiently reasoned out elsewhere? searching the web shows me that there is a definite statistical correlation (at least if one website is to be believed, crime in NYC is 3% of national crime, the reduction of crime in NYC contributed to 70% of the reduction nationwide). are there alternative possible causes? such as the economy boom (which i would guess also favoured NYC disproportionately)? could there be a mix of these causes?
finally: the data that blacks prefer strict policing does not seem to necessarily contradict the claim that "a serious case can be made that the criminal justice system creates more crime than it prevents".
btw when they do these surveys do they also ask the criminals?
--ravi
(*) i can see that "the desired effect was achieved" is a valid statement since the effect desired was lowered crime. but nobody desires effects in a disjoint sense, do they? isnt there at least a ceteris paribus of sorts with these desired effects: we desire a lowering of crime given all else such as our individual freedoms remain constant or improve. or was the statistic regarding black opinion on crime/punishment intended to show that people are agreeable to this trade-off?